Can someone quiz me? - Page 2

tjherman · 05-09-2012, 03:55 PM

You'll need to know more than just looking at a photo. You have to identify the hamster's phenotype (what the hamster looks like) and fill in the blanks unless you have a pedigree. The blanks are just as important. Even then, you have to be able to look at the hamster's temperament, the type (short blunt head? size of eyes? cobby body?), and overall health.

Let's start with something easier. Is this hamster self-colored or agouti? And why?

And if you'd like, tell me what this guy is.

Kissa · 05-09-2012, 04:20 PM

Kind of related, but that ham looks a lot like my friend's

I agree that knowing genetics first is a must. I have A level biology and did a genetics module in first year at uni, and it's been so helpful in my understanding of hamster specifics. I may not have every little detail memorised, but then I don't need to because I don't want to breed Syrians

It's the understanding that's important.

vanilla-yazoo · 05-09-2012, 04:28 PM

*waves hand* I know what it is!!
but yes, this is the sort of thing you need to know

there are still a few colours that baffle me, but thats because i dont see them often!

radiocricket · 05-09-2012, 05:36 PM

That's the thing though really, being able to look at a color you're not familiar with and taking what you know about the known mutations and analyzing it. You look at things that can help you work it out, ear color, eye color, cheekflash color, crescent color, self or agouti, color of undercoat, placement of pattern, etc... It is the unfamilliar hamsters that really test your knowledge.

As far as what the best method is for learning, I agree that a hands-on, visual approach is best for learning colors, patterns, etc... A hamster show would be an ideal setting except that given Edgar's location, there's not a possibility of attending a show (for at least another year anyways). Rather than wait until then, the internet will be an invaluable resource (though Edgar, you'll really need to look at the photos on a full size monitor, not just your smart phone). Many colors just aren't going to be found in the local pet store, but then it will make identifying common genes that much easier.

-Janice

Edgar_Furrybutt · 05-09-2012, 05:37 PM

It makes perfect sense that I need to understand because memorizing only gets me so far. I like the idea of just the pics to help me learn colors. You guys are awesome

That looks like a long haired banded golden to me, but the ears look more flesh colored and they should be dark gray. He/she has the cheek flashes like a golden. And I'd say "agouti" because of the light and dark colored ticking.

So the babies that Paisley had back in January I know are golden, but they're umbrous goldens because they're darker?
http://i1121.photobucket.com/albums/...Shyloh/114.jpg
http://i1121.photobucket.com/albums/...rkchop/018.jpg

radiocricket · 05-09-2012, 05:48 PM

Yes, but it's just not their "darkness" that lets you know they're Umbrous as the amount of darkening the Umbrous gene creates is variable from significant to minute. The one place that you'll always be able to dintinguish Umbrous from not on an agouti is the crescents. If they're not the ivory/white that you'd expect on a given color, then the hamster is Umbrous, no matter if you can see it in the rest of the coat or not.

**The one exception to this would be with a Satin as the gene darkens the colors of the hamsters and sometimes non-Umbrous Satins have darker crescents.

-Janice

Edgar_Furrybutt · 05-09-2012, 05:50 PM

The crescents are the white belly bumps that go up on the side? Three right? Or are normal campbell's bleeding over into my syrian colors? Ow... My head hurts.

Charley101 · 05-09-2012, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edgar_Furrybutt

The crescents are the white belly bumps that go up on the side? Three right? Or are normal campbell's bleeding over into my syrian colors? Ow... My head hurts.

I don't balme you! I have read this thread and don't have a clue what anyone is talking about lol

. Genetics and breeding is so much more complicated than i first thought! Not to be taken lightly that's for sure!

radiocricket · 05-09-2012, 06:14 PM

Edgar, if you're still at the point of learning what the crescents, cheekflashes, etc.. are, then you're getting a bit ahead of yourself! Go to the Pet Website's Syrian hamster pages and start working your way through, page by page. It will start you off identifying these things and the basic colors and then move to combination colors. While it doesn't go in depth into the colors, it's a good starting point. From there, go to the NHC's Syrian standards and get familiar (but you don't have to memorize) the standards for the different colors.

After that, or if you can handle it, then alongside learning the colors, go to the River Road Hamstery's genetics tutorial to learn about gene inheritance and genotyping.

-Janice

tjherman · 05-09-2012, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edgar_Furrybutt

It makes perfect sense that I need to understand because memorizing only gets me so far. I like the idea of just the pics to help me learn colors. You guys are awesome

That looks like a long haired banded golden to me, but the ears look more flesh colored and they should be dark gray. He/she has the cheek flashes like a golden. And I'd say "agouti" because of the light and dark colored ticking.

Self-colored hamsters are the same color all over, think of your standard Black Eyed Cream, for example.

Agouti isn't just ticking, though Agouti fur has different layers of color.
Look at the image of the different banded layers of fur on a hamster from River Road Hamstery.

Agouti animals also have crescents, cheek flashes, chestband, etc. as seen on the image on the NHC site.

Think of Agouti, "wild type," as whatever you'll get when there's not common genes in 2 parents.

Long haired Banded Golden - Correct! You are seeing differences in the ear color because this particular hamster is a 23 day old pup, and he's banded. Banded will mottle the ear color. Ear color is one of those things that comes in as the animal matures. The long hair often isn't evident until the 3 week mark, like on this male pup.

Now, just looking at the Long haired Banded Golden male... it is going to be really hard to tell what genes he carries without knowing at least a partial pedigree or the parents' colors. Could he carry cream? Black? Cinnamon? Green with polka dots?

You get the idea!

All this information I just gave is out there, just waiting to be read. The River Road Hamstery website with all its genetics information is your friend. Pull up a photo of a hamster or take photos of ones at the pet store, come home, and try to identify what you saw. If you get stuck, then ask!

Learning genetics and responsible breeding is your first step to becoming a reputable breeder.