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Old 01-28-2008, 04:25 AM   #1
Mollz
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Default Sexing babies

Hi all!
I am hoping to have the occasional litter of hamsters, hopefully with one of Julie's next litter and my mink roan boy. I have been researching for months and have already reserved one of Julie's babies and am pretty sure I know as much as possible. However the one thing I can't get my head round is sexing!
I understand that females have holes very close together and have nipples/teats and that males' holes are far apart - but is it really that obvious when looking at them? I have only ever seen pictures (or seen for myself) adult hamsters and it does seem fairly obvious on them - but surely it can't be that clear on little babies? Does anyone have any pictures of the underside of male and female babies showing the difference?
I would really hate to get a sex wrong and will probably end up taking them to the vets to be sexed in the end!
I know it is a long way away, and won't be for months and months, but I really want to be fully prepared. I even went out and bought 4 cages yesterday as a start for when babies need to be split and spent around 3 hours scrubbing and washing them
My other question is, my syrians are in gabber rex cages - but would this be safe for a female to give birth in? Would the babies get hurt/stuck in the holes in the insert, and if so what else would be the best for the girl to make her nest in? I was considering just getting a large sturdy cardboard box and filling it with loo roll - would this be good enough or would a proper wooden/plastic house be better?
Sorry for asking strange questions, but as I said I don't want to go into anything unprepared - and it may not even happen, but knowledge is important to me anyway.
Thanks in advance!
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Old 01-28-2008, 04:47 AM   #2
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Default Re: Sexing babies

I must say I'll be delighted if you have one of my babies, Mollz and I've added your name to the list with a joyous heart!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mollz
However the one thing I can't get my head round is sexing!
I understand that females have holes very close together and have nipples/teats and that males' holes are far apart - but is it really that obvious when looking at them? I have only ever seen pictures (or seen for myself) adult hamsters and it does seem fairly obvious on them - but surely it can't be that clear on little babies? Does anyone have any pictures of the underside of male and female babies showing the difference?
I would really hate to get a sex wrong and will probably end up taking them to the vets to be sexed in the end!
It's actually not as hard as you think! I was really woried about exactly the same thing when we had Caramel's litter but the differences - after you've looked a few times - are quite obvious. I couldn't believe, when we first started looking, that we only had 3 males out of eleven - I kept thinking I must be doing it wrong! The females are quite obvious in light SH's - you can see the row of nipples even when they have fur - LH's are a bit more complicated but still the differences are quite obvious once you've looked at a few.

I think the best thing to do would be to try and have a look at a litter and try to sex them with an experienced breeder with you - you may well be able to do that at Highworth as there will likely be a litter there. I did this with one of Sue's litters at Gatcombe last year and really set my mind at rest to realise I'd been doing it right.

It's not easy to get clear pictures of squirming babies - I tried and they were rubbish!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mollz
My other question is, my syrians are in gabber rex cages - but would this be safe for a female to give birth in? Would the babies get hurt/stuck in the holes in the insert, and if so what else would be the best for the girl to make her nest in? I was considering just getting a large sturdy cardboard box and filling it with loo roll - would this be good enough or would a proper wooden/plastic house be better?
Gabber Rexes are IMO perfect for mums and babies. I left the shelf in when mine were born (as did Souffle/Pophammy and Basia) and it made a perfect nest area. Once the mum starts coming out for a ball run you can lift up the food dish and get a peep inside as well without going anywhere near the nest! We had no problems with babies getting stuck.

I don't think these are stupid questions at all - they are exactly what I wanted to know before we had our litter and you are obviously being very sensible by plannin ahead and getting as much info as you can
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Old 01-28-2008, 07:00 AM   #3
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Thanks Julie - I'm honoured that you are so happy for me to be having one of your babies (that strange phrase again lol).
I worry that at shows it will be frowned upon if I start asking questions about breeding and that people with think that I'm just another of the irresponsible breeders who breed so without thinking.
I would love to get some experience sexing at highworth - but am always so nervous as I fear that people will judge me (I don't know why, I'm just very insecure I guess), and am never brave enough to talk to people! You'll have to wear a sign, Julie and any others who are going, so that I know it is safe to talk to you lol!

The stupid thing is that I'm excited already and there will be months to wait to even get my new little one - who will no doubt be gorgeous. Any extra info, good books or websites would be appreciated as I would rather read the same things over and over than miss something out!
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Old 01-28-2008, 07:01 AM   #4
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I also found it easy to sex the babies as soon as they came out of the nest. As Julie said, you can often see the nipples on the females and the males, well mine looked like males from an early age, even my runt.
I used the gabber rex cage but I am going to take the shelf out next time and put a cardboard box in, like you were thinking. Some of my babies were very adventurous on the shelf when they were really quite small and worried me so I ended up taking the shelf out. It did give them a lot more room to run around and they started making nests of their own all over the place.
Sounds like you are giving it all a lot of thought.
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Old 01-28-2008, 07:06 AM   #5
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Gabbers are perfect and you do not need a nest box either in them as Holly said the shelf if a well ventilated cozy spot. None of ours have ever had any problems on the shelf either. The only alteration we made is to drill a low hole for a water bottle as the babies are too small to reach the one in the lid and they do drink quite early on from it. I think you will find the sexing OK as by 4wks you can usually tell and if you cant they are unlikely to be old enough to breed anyway! If in doubt put it in the male tank. Better one pregnant female in with the males than six pregnant girls who had a boy in with them!!! There are pics of adults in the articles section but babies are a bit more tricky. We can usually spot the nipples on females through the fur.
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Old 01-28-2008, 07:14 AM   #6
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I'll definitely wear a sign at Highworth, Mollz - it's my first SOE show so I'll be a bit nervous - and Basia will be with me and it's her first show! At least we know Leanne and we'll be very relieved to see you!

As for genetics information - Teresa and I were talking to Pete Logsdail on Saturday and he said his genetic "sheets" will be about six months in the making but they will be available to club members in the end - hopefully in time for you as the ones I saw last year were very detailed and very informative
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Old 01-28-2008, 07:15 AM   #7
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Thanks everyone - it's great to hear that it shouldn't be too hard to sex.
I did think the gabber rex would be perfect but was worried about little legs etc. getting hurt on the insert, however as so many of you have used it without problems then there seems to be no reason to worry.

How easy is it to sell babies at shows? I have a pet shop who has offered to have them any babies from me, so I know that they will deffinately have homes, but idealy I would like to find homes myself through forums and maybe classified ad sites so that I can vet the homes. But if I planned the litter to be the right age at the time of a show then I could consider selling them there as well.
I would like to find them all homes personally if possible - but the petshop is a very good one that I have shopped in and had animals from for years, so at least I know that I do have that option. They find it very hard to find breeders in this area (I know they have asked Sue from Bourne Valley, but she does too may other pet shops), and are very interested in having nice, friendly hamsters from a good source - it's just the thought of me not knowing where they are going that bothers me. Does anyone else give hamsters to trusted pet shops?
Anyway - that was a bit of a rant and probably makes no sense at all to anyone. Never mind, I've typed it all out now
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Old 01-28-2008, 07:24 AM   #8
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I, personally, wouldn't sell any of my babies via a petshop - that's because I don't know of a really good one that I trust but also because I'm against the selling of animals in the "pet trade" in general and I'd also prefer to find and "vet" my own homes. I know Teresa (Spud's Mum) has a nice petshop where some of her babies go - I'm sure she'd help you with this.

I also, personally, have a problem selling at shows - not so much the village hall type shows where the people tend to be hamster enthusiasts or locals who come year after year because they know the hamsters will healthy and tame - I'm talking about the big shows where people buy on the spur of the moment 'cos they see a cute baby hammy. It's very hard to vet people at these events and I wouldn't want any of mine going via this route.

Having said all that I didn't have problems finding homes for my litter - we did keep an extra one and then the follwing week 2 people asked me if they could have her - I had to say no because she was already Milly to me!
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Old 01-28-2008, 07:45 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holly
I, personally, wouldn't sell any of my babies via a petshop - that's because I don't know of a really good one that I trust but also because I'm against the selling of animals in the "pet trade" in general and I'd also prefer to find and "vet" my own homes. I know Teresa (Spud's Mum) has a nice petshop where some of her babies go - I'm sure she'd help you with this.

I also, personally, have a problem selling at shows - not so much the village hall type shows where the people tend to be hamster enthusiasts or locals who come year after year because they know the hamsters will healthy and tame - I'm talking about the big shows where people buy on the spur of the moment 'cos they see a cute baby hammy. It's very hard to vet people at these events and I wouldn't want any of mine going via this route.

Having said all that I didn't have problems finding homes for my litter - we did keep an extra one and then the follwing week 2 people asked me if they could have her - I had to say no because she was already Milly to me!
Those are exactly my problems, although this pet shop isn't really a pet shop it's more a family run thing and started off with them selling the guineas and rabbits that they had bred and the right equipment to go with them, and now they take rodent litters (accidental or planned) off of people to sell too.
I wouldn't have thought that I would have too much trouble finding homes for them anyway, hopefully through this and other forums. It also wouldn't worry me if I ended up keeping 3 or so, I just wouldn't breed again for a while.
I have only ever been to a small show so have never really experienced people just casually wandering round - more people like me who had travelled to go there - so didn't realise it could be like that.
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Old 02-03-2008, 11:14 AM   #10
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Baby hamsters are sometimes easier to sex than adults due to their shorter and thinner fur on their tummies and you have the opportunity to compare side by side
try doing that with two adult hamsters
they wont like it trust me


start with the litter in one large box and two smaller cardboard/plastic boxes ready to receive the individual sexes
pop all those who look the same in one box and vice versa and then double, triple, quadruple check within the smalelr boxes
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