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Old 12-16-2011, 11:23 AM   #1
genevieve
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Default How long between matings?

I'm planning on beginning to breed Campbells in the Winter/Spring of 2012. Now, don't get me wrong, I've researched this for two years and I'm clear on everything. But I'm still undecided on how long I personally want to wait between matings.

I don't plan on breeding them until they're 12 weeks old (3 months) minimum, and they will "retire" at 1 year old, at the latest. Depending on circumstances, I plan on breeding them no more than 3 times at the absolute most, but preferably I want them to have no more than 2 litters each.

How long would you recommend the rest period between litters to be? On the one hand, I obviously want to give the females enough recovery time. But on the other hand, I don't want them to live a lonely life for a prolonged period while waiting to mate again and ideally it would be nice for them to stop breeding as early as possible.
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Old 12-17-2011, 07:28 PM   #2
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Default Re: How long between matings?

For syrians it's a 3 month break, I would take it from the split date from the mother, after 2 months if she is back to super condition then ild start preparing for the next litter sometime the 3rd month, near the end.

I'm breeding at 5 months, and 10 months old aprox for my Syrian. I plan only two to a female, of you breed the first litter early, you can push for a 3rd, but it shortens the life f the female to have multiple births.
Hope this helps x
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Old 12-18-2011, 04:08 AM   #3
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Default Re: How long between matings?

Thanks My original plan was to breed my dwarfs first at 4-5 months, then again at 8-9 months, and then retire them. Does that sound okay?
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Old 12-18-2011, 07:06 AM   #4
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Default Re: How long between matings?

The one thing that you're forgetting is that Campbells and Winter Whites have back to back litters since they rebreed within the first day of giving birth. The only way to stop this is to remove the male before she gives birth but then he's not in there to help her with the litter.

What I do is leave the male in so the female gets pregnant with the second litter. I leave the first litter in with the pair until I feel they're ready for their new homes, which is usually after the birth of the second litter. I let the male rebreed to the female after the birth of her second litter. It is toward the very end of her third pregnancy that most of the changes happen. I wean all but two or three females of the first litter that I'm considering keeping for breeding. I'll put the father in a new cage either with one of his sons from the first litter or another female I want him to breed to. The mother is then left with the second litter that are almost old enough to wean and a few females from the first litter. The third litter is born and the first litter pups can help her with that litter. Soon after, I'll wean the entire second litter so that mom is left only with her older daughters and the third litter. Sometimes I'll still leave in females from the second litter that I'm considering breeding. At the end of it all, I can end up with a cage with a mother and daughters from all three litters that I'll evaluate for breeding. The ones that I'll breed I'll pair up when they're old enough. The ones I don't want to breed I'll remove all but one. That one will remain with her mother. Did you follow all that?! There's a lot going on!

-Janice
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Old 12-18-2011, 07:48 AM   #5
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Default Re: How long between matings?

Oh, I'm not forgetting that I've considered the whole back-to-back litter thing, but I wasn't too comfortable with it. It seems like it would be a lot of strain/stress for the mother to have them so close together. Of course, as you said, removing the father does mean that he cannot help to raise the litter, and bi-parental care seems to be beneficial to Campbells. But it seemed to me like separating them before the second litter is born was the lesser of the evils, so to speak.

Have your females all been fine with back-to-back breeding? No ill-effects, like shorter life-span? If so, it's something I'm happy to consider. I just don't want to be putting the mother under too much strain.


Also, this is what I gather your rough "schedule" is (I'm using 21 days as the average Campbells gestation):

DAY 1 - Mating #1
DAY 22 - Litter #1 born
DAY 23 - Mating #2
DAY 44 - Litter #2 born
DAY 45 - Mating #3
DAY 50 - Litter #1 sexually mature
DAY 65 - Father removed, along with male(s) or female from Litter #1
DAY 66 - Litter #3 born
DAY 72 - Litter #2 sexually mature
DAY 73 (or later) - Litter #2 partially/completely removed
DAY 94 - Litter #3 sexually mature
DAY 95 (or later) - All but one remaining from Litters #1, #2 and #3 removed/paired up

If I have this right, then this means you have other sexually mature hams the same cage as the mother and father. If so, how do you prevent the offspring from mating? Or am I missing something? :P

EDIT:
This GIF breakdown might make what I'm saying clearer. Or may just make it more confusing! Basically I'm trying to show how many sexually mature pups (the "thicker" 'o's) you may have in the cage at any one time:

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Last edited by genevieve; 12-18-2011 at 11:12 AM.
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Old 12-18-2011, 11:08 AM   #6
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Default Re: How long between matings?

Quote:
Originally Posted by vanilla-yazoo View Post
For syrians it's a 3 month break, I would take it from the split date from the mother, after 2 months if she is back to super condition then ild start preparing for the next litter sometime the 3rd month, near the end.

I'm breeding at 5 months, and 10 months old aprox for my Syrian. I plan only two to a female, of you breed the first litter early, you can push for a 3rd, but it shortens the life f the female to have multiple births.
Hope this helps x

Most people will only say two litters not three
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Old 12-18-2011, 11:13 AM   #7
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Default Re: How long between matings?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lisab View Post
Most people will only say two litters not three
Everyone has different opinions, but personally I do agree with the two litters thing.
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Old 12-19-2011, 12:06 PM   #8
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Default Re: How long between matings?

I can definitely see where people would only want two litters, however this is the system that I've found works best for me and I feel works out best for the hamsters. I don't like to leave the female to rear a litter on her own and just haven't observed the 1st litter pups assisting the mother if the father is removed prior to the second litter being born. It's as if the mother is left to rear two litters on her own.

I don't usually wait up until the very last day before birth of the third litter to remove the male. It's more of a "sense" thing I guess, depending on how self-sufficient and helpful the 1st litter is. That way if something comes up and I miss the window to remove him, I don't have to worry about the female being rebred.

I've also not had instances with the 1st litter females becoming pregnant. I've found that males become sexually mature before the females do so removing the males is more important. Really, if you already know who you're going to keep, you can remove all but one of the female pups before litter 3 is born. I should note though that this is what I've observed within my lines, it's not to say that your lines won't be sexual mature earlier. Within my lines I find I end up waiting for a females first litter until she's sexually mature and the males have proven they've not been the issue.

In the end what you want to end up with is the mother having help to rear the last litter and the father paired up with another hamster (be it a son or a different female). I prefer leaving a daughter in with the retired mother, be it a litter 1 or litter 3 female. It's a "companion" female- one I'm never going to breed but is there to keep the retired mother company. When the mother passes away, this companion female is too old to be fertile so I'll pair her with a young, just weaned male (split cage method) and then when the companion female passes away, that male will be ready to breed to whichever female I've selected for him.

It's really a management and juggle of hamsters. What I strive for is few repairings. I don't like to be constantly splitting and reintroducing pairs. I don't like the females to rear litters on their own, but really, I'm sure they can do it just fine but I want them to have the least amount of stess as possible and feel having her mate or older daughters with her is beneficial.

-Janice
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Old 12-23-2011, 07:32 AM   #9
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Default Re: How long between matings?

Thanks for all that Janice, your experience will be very helpful as I decide on my breeding plan!
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Old 12-23-2011, 08:43 AM   #10
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Default Re: How long between matings?

I don't think I can add much more to advice already given. But I will say it is different for every female, some manage their first litter with ease and can take another straight after. Others need a period of rest or to not have another litter at all.

I was unsure whether to breed my Roo once or twice. But even though shes managed her first litter well and is still in alright condition, I wouldn't breed her again as she has suffered stress from this first litter and it wouldn't be fair to put her through it again.
The welbeing of the mother should always come first, no matter how badly you'd want another litter or how much demand there is on your waiting list x
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