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Old 11-10-2011, 12:47 PM   #31
Ankali
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Location: Tennessee, US
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Default Re: Looking for breeders in the U.S.

I understand that, but I also know from personal experience that people don't do what they say. It's hard find honest homes without prior knowledge of the people you are placing hamsters with. I have never placed any of my pups with a pet store and did my best to screen and provide additional support to my adopters.
Unfortunately one adopter ended up placing her hamster with the SPCA without telling me, I saw her online and recognized her very unique pattern, and another decided on a whim that she would place the mottled male she received from me with two mottled females after every warning I gave her not only about the dangers of breeding, but also the results of breeding two ruby eyed mottleds.
Both of these homes had proven to know the care a dwarf requires and provided fabulous large tanks for them and seemed to genuinely care only for tragedy to strike. I communicate with potential adopters through multiple emails and phone calls before releasing a hamster and still end up betrayed in a way. It's heartbreaking and the reason I very rarely breed and end up hanging on to babies for so long. Most of my babies end up with family and friends. Pet stores may care about the animals but I doubt they do much if any screening of potential adopters. They may provide information about proper care and advise against breeding for the heck of it but I seriously doubt they follow up with owners on a regular basis except when something bad happens
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Old 11-10-2011, 12:47 PM   #32
radiocricket
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Default Re: Looking for breeders in the U.S.

It's an excellent question to ask. I have no problem being open with my ideas and practices (obviously!).

I don't have a problem with hamsters going to pet stores. It's the pet stores that allow us to continue breeding as without an outlet for the pups we don't hold back, a breeder would soon reach their housing maximum otherwise.

You're right in that I don't have any control over the hamsters once they go to the pet store. There's nothing stopping anyone from buying them and breeding. What they will not get with that hamster though is its pedigree. They won't know anything more about that hamster than the one sitting next to it. With the pet store that I sell to on the west coast, they only want males from me and do have purchasers sign a contract (that's become very common place now with any animal purchases), the contract does have a non-breeding clause that they added per my request. Again, they could use that hamster to breed but my hamstery can't show up on any of their pedigrees.

I have people approach me all the time for breeding animals. It's the motive behind the breeding that I look for. I've mentored many people and have spent so much time and money doing so. Some of it was wasted time, but most of it hasn't been. I suppose it wasn't wasted time as the breeders now know better, they just don't care. If I still let them have hamsters from my lines to breed from, it could be interpretted that I agree with their breeding practices and ideals. I'd have to sit and watch as they ruin years of my dedication and work within a breeding or two, generation or two, etc.. Breeding isn't as simple as just putting hamsters together, it's the thought behind the pairing that's important. Breeding is really an art of selection. Some people want to learn the art, some don't. It's the people that do that I fully support, even if they've never owned a hamster in their life!

Breeding for a quota is a completely different approach to breeding. Decisions will be based on the resulting head count. Sure you can still maintain different lines but overall, there will be many decisions made that wouldn't have be made otherwise if the pressure of a quota wasn't there.

-Janice

Last edited by radiocricket; 11-10-2011 at 02:01 PM.
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Old 11-12-2011, 05:33 PM   #33
Almi
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Default Re: Looking for breeders in the U.S.

I don't see how someone breeding one of your hamsters when it would otherwise not be bred is "ruining all of your hard work." It's not setting you back or affecting you at all (you may not ever know it happened); it's basically just creating pups that would otherwise not be there. I don't see how that's destroying anything.

Do you think that's what I intend to do, anyway? Because if I ordered hamsters from you, I'd order enough that they would most likely be my entire breeding stock (if that would be possible for you). Then perhaps I might, if I can, find another breeder to get hamsters from for some fresh genes. Do you think that I'd order two or three hamsters from you and just breed them to the ones I've found in pet stores? That would be silly. I'd order enough from you so that I could breed the ones I bought from you together. I'd most likely rehome my other ones, unless there was something really special about them.

You could even sell me hamsters without a pedigree, if that made you feel better. Then it's no different from me buying one of your hamsters through a pet store, right? So you take no responsibility then. I do genuinely want some good lines. If I were so worried about just "head count" (I am NOT, I am more concerned about quality, and will probably not meet their quota, at least right away), I wouldn't be willing to pay the several hundred dollars it takes to get some good quality breeding stock shipped to me. Doesn't that say anything at all? It's not like it's impossible to produce their quota, but of GOOD QUALITY hamsters. Quality comes before quota. If I meet quota, great. Just because there is a quota (I was simply told how many hamsters they sell each month ON AVERAGE when I asked, it's not like they said, "produce this many or we don't want your business,"), doesn't mean I'm all that worried about meeting it (really it would just be a matter of having a certain number of litters every month, not a certain number of pups, anyway). I am not breeding solely for numbers, quality is very important to me. I want you to understand that.

Do you even have any available, Janet? I looked on your site and there was nothing, but perhaps you haven't updated it. Well, if are ever willing to sell and ship to me, and have any available, let me know...you haven't actually said no to me directly, so I thought I'd ask.
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Old 12-11-2011, 07:25 AM   #34
radiocricket
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Default Re: Looking for breeders in the U.S.

I'm sorry but no. I've tried to explain my reasoning a few different ways. I wish I knew how to make it easier to understand.

Perhaps after you've done it for many months or a year and it's something that you still want to continue, then we can revisit the idea. At that point you'll have some actual experience with having a hamstery. I know your viewpoint will be a little different at that point. Not that it has to agree with mine but once you see that it's not like how you thought it would be, it may still be enjoyable enough for you to persue in other directions with or you may find it's not something you want to do at all. You'll also be able to have working knowledge of what you've done and why you've made the pairings you have. While it's faster to get quality if you start of with quality, you can still get there within a few generations of breeding "pet store stock". Again, it's all about the art of selection- selecting the right animals to add to your lines, selecting the right animals to breed to one another. All the information on genetics is out there on the River Road Hamstery site and the California Hamster Association has many articles focusing on ethics, selection, pairing, etc...

-Janice

-Janice
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