Colour Prediction Help

Spacemonkey · 12-11-2007, 08:11 PM

I'm planning on breeding Smurf and Bailey soon and just wondered if anyone could confirm or deny what I suspect the colours of the babies will be. Sorry if this is confusing, I hope you can follow it!

Smurf is Cinnamon banded (possibly Umbrous?) his grandfather and grandmother were Golden and Copper banded LH respectively, his mother was either Rust/dark Golden or Tort banded SH (it caused a bit of debate on another site, can supply pic so you lot can debate :P) and his father was Umbrous Golden banded LH. He has Cream in his line as his uncles were LH Cream banded + Blonde plus the gene combinations from the Copper etc.

Bailey is pure Cream as far as I am aware but its going to be a lottery with all those recessives knocking about on Smurfs side of the family

Now, I'm thinking a lot of Golden banded babies here since Golden is dominant along with banded, be nice to have some Cream in there, I'd appreciate your thoughts everyone.

I'm not going for show quality just very good temperament, Smurf is a very intelligent and lovely little man, this will be his first litter but hes very keen!

souffle · 12-14-2007, 08:18 AM

There are a lot of genes in there Spacemonkey and I would not like to predict the outcome. Golden is the default colour if there is no pair of recessives present. Even 'pure' creams can carry bits and pieces and suddenly spring a surprise. from the info you have given you may get cinnies, creams, minks, sables, doves, banded or not and of course golden and umbrous of all these. It will be a genetic lottery!

Spacemonkey · 12-14-2007, 09:56 AM

Thanks Souffle

I guess it is a bit of a melting pot to say the least, still, its always nice to have a few surprises colour wise, I guess I'll have to wait and see. I'll let you know in due course

Spacemonkey · 01-04-2008, 07:50 PM

The babies were born 1/1/08 - right on cue! I thought it might be nice to have a happy event to start the year

From what I can see, without disturbing Bailey, they are turning quite dark already with one being banded in the exact same way as father Smurf with a little 'lightning strip' down the back. Seems that Smurf's mother had a predominant gene where it comes to creating banded Sables :P

Still, early days, we'll have to wait and see. Exciting times

souffle · 01-05-2008, 02:42 AM

Congrats on the 'New Year' Babies spacemonkey. Looking forward to seeing them once their eyes are open and hearing all about them as they grow.

Basia · 01-05-2008, 04:31 AM

Congratulations - baby hamsters, that is a good way to start the New Year

Holly · 01-06-2008, 02:13 PM

Congrats from me too, it will be lovely to see pictures when, as Souffle says, they are out of the nest with their eyes open. It is wonderful watching them grow and play!

**Spuds Mum** · 01-06-2008, 02:36 PM

I did say I would look at the possible combinations Spacemonkey when we spoke a couple of days ago, but to be honest, you have so many colours going on just about anything is possible!

The most likely colour of course is golden and umbrous golden and as banding is dominant you could expect half the pups (or more) to be banded - although the science of genetics doesn't always tie up number wise with what you end up with

Umbrous is another dominant gene, so if you do have it in there then again, depending on whether Smurf has two lots (UU) or one lot of umbrous (Uu) then you can expect between half and all of the pups to be umbrous colours (same applies for the banded gene - Ba).
If you end up with sables then what you will be able to say is that Smurf, even if a cinnamon, will carry cream. Sable is genetically cream (ee) and umbrous (Uu or UU). If Bailey carries a cinnamon then you may end up with minks (eeppUU/Uu), creams, cinnamons as well as golden, umbrous golden and sable of course.
In the early days it is quite easy to see the darker colours and distinguish the banded ones, but lots of colours such as golden start off looking black/sabley due to the first hairs being the guard hairs. It can be almost two weeks before you can fully identify the goldens from the sables!
Cant wait to hear more about the little guys. Hope Mum is looking after them well.

Spacemonkey · 01-06-2008, 06:20 PM

Thanks everyone

Thanks for trying to predict some colours for me Spud's Mum, Bailey is being an excellent mother for a first timer and has them well hidden, she wants to keep them a surprise it seems.

From what I have seen we have a couple of banded but not all are, so the 50/50 rule seems to be correct so far. I'd be very happy with some Goldens, I have a bit of a soft spot for them. Minks would be equally welcome as I've only had one in a litter years ago and he/she sadly didn't make it

They are 7 days old today and its getting nearer to the time when they will become more mobile, I can't wait, its always a nice time when they start to explore

Spacemonkey · 01-08-2008, 04:04 AM

Managed to get a small video whilst Bailey was eating her scrambled egg, apologies if its a bit shaky, I took it with a long zoom as not to disturb.

Looks like I have some Sables

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6jYg589TMA