Have I done everything?

[Holly]

As many of you know we will shortly be attempting to breed a litter of BEC Syrians from Caramel and (Souffle and Pophammy's) Paws.

I have done my research re genetics (I know both hamsters are of good type, their genetic histories etc) and the actual mating (Paws is coming to stay with us so that we don't have to travel with Caramel). We already have three definite homes plus two probable ones. I'm hoping that we do have any babies left that need homes Paws and Caramel's will be enough to find them homes at a show or with hamster hobbyists. I don't really want to go down the petshop line, though we do have a local petshop that cannot get enough hamsters to meet demand. I would just like to "vet" prospective owners myself.

I have a vet with emergency phone numbers (plus souffle's phone number), several spare cages and I know what food to give, bedding/cage to use, to remove the wheel etc etc. Anything else?

I'm also very aware that Caramel will need peace and quiet before, during and after the birth if the litter are to have the best chance of survival/good health. Caramel currently lives in our living room - obviously not the best place for her - as I'm currently in the process of turning the spare room into a "hamster room". My question is should I move her into the spare room now - will she be ok in a room with two dwarf hams and a male Syrian after the birth? it's definitely the quietest room in the house (unless I move her to my bedroom?). I presume I shouldn't be moving her when she's close to the birth? Any advice?

Finally I shall try to get a good photo of Caramel tonight to post here. I haven't posted any pictures of her since she was about 8 weeks old and, due to unforseen circumstances (one show rained off and car troubles) I haven't been able to enter her into a show yet - Rotherham will be her first. Obviously I think she's gorgeous (!) and she does have parents who have both won BIS - but I suppose I just want someone more experienced than myself to tell me that she is suitable to breed from. I guess I'll know after Rotherham but I'd like a little advice now

Finally can any other breeders offer me any other advice - it will be gratefully received

[Holly]

For some reason I can't edit???

Forgot to say that Caramel is a LH BEC from Tristar (with very little non BEC in her pedigree) and Paws is a SH Satin BEC possibly carrying LH (from Carrington Hams, I believe - Souffle?). So we are expecting all BEC babies, some satin and hopefully some LH and LH satin - I'll be happy with a bunch of healthy babies of good type whatever their "hairstyle" is though!

I also ought to add a bit about my plans - I'm hoping that Caramel will be the start of my own "little hamstery" for showing and breeding. I only plan to do this on a small scale, with probably two litters a year, as my son and I love to get the hamsters out every night and give them all some attention - something we couldn't do if we have hammies in double figures. I'm setting up the spare room (just need a bit more shelving and some more storage) and we hope to develop a good quality cream line for showing first. I also have aspirations in the Sable direction - as this is a good colour to go with BEC I'll probably stick with this for now.

Again - any tips from the experts welcome!

[pophammy]

Paws is a Custard Hamstery, Holly ~ we bred him ourselves! His father is from Craftyskill and his mum was from Carrington. I would move her to the spare room as soon as you can so as to be sure she is settled in there. I would not have the other hams in the room at the same time as this may disturb her. Also if you are planning on removing the platform in her cage (so you can see the babies better etc.) (she's in a Gabber Rex right?) I would do it pretty soon so she is used to it not being there as we had to leave Bailey's as she had a complete 'furry' fit when we tried to remove it!!!

It is likely that Paws may be carrying cinnamon, so you might get some of them in the litter. We think he is carrying longhair as he is pretty fluffy for a SH satin!

On Paws' family tree ~
Nelson (BEC SH)(Dad)'s parents were a REC banded SH (Dad) and a BEC SH(Mum)
Nelson's grandparents were on the father's side unknown and on the mother's side BEC SH and BEC LH, which is where Nel got the longhair gene before. Nel doesn't carry banded from his dad or else he would have been a band.

Bailey (Mum)(cinnamon satin SH)'s parents were BE golden Satin SH (Dad) and BE Golden SH (Mum).
Bailey's grandparents were on the father's side BEC satin SH and BE Golden SH and on the mother's side BE Golden SH and BE Golden SH, so the cinnamon and the longhair have obviously been carried back further than we have records on our pedigrees for!!!

Cream is a good colour to show with as they tend to deepen with age and improve, and they can be shown for quite a long time. Sables, however, can be tricky as you can only show them for a short time as when they get to about 9 months they start to go 'brown' and lose points, however we do love the colour (we got two in a litter between two petshop hams ~ a BEC banded and a golden)!

You are sensible not to want to keep too many hams as it is easy to get carried away and it is not fair for them not to get the attention and care they deserve as pets. I wouldn't like mine to sit in a shed all day long and not get played with (like some show hams do). With regards to breeding Caramel there is no doubt that she has a brilliant pedigree, and will be suitable to breed from. Whether her breeder would recommend Paws as a husband I doubt (!) but that is your choice and our hams definitely have excellent temperaments which we think is just as important as type. Paws in very excited now at the thought of getting 'married'!!! Many breeders will sell on their females as pets after one or two litters, but to us a ham is not just for showing but is mainly a pet and a ham to us is a ham for life. When they are 'retired' they still get as much love and attention as the other hams and we would never sell them on to a new owner.

[Holly]

Originally Posted by pophammy

Paws is a Custard Hamstery, Holly ~ we bred him ourselves! His father is from Craftyskill and his mum was from Carrington.

Oops - I knew that! I meant that either Bailey or Nelson were from Carrington as I thought I remembered souffle telling me.

Originally Posted by pophammy

I would move her to the spare room as soon as you can so as to be sure she is settled in there. I would not have the other hams in the room at the same time as this may disturb her. Also if you are planning on removing the platform in her cage (so you can see the babies better etc.) (she's in a Gabber Rex right?) I would do it pretty soon so she is used to it not being there as we had to leave Bailey's as she had a complete 'furry' fit when we tried to remove it!!!

I think, in that case, I'll put her in my room quite soon then and let her get used to it. I wouldn't be able to move all of the other hams out of the spare room as I'd struggle for somewhere cat-proof to keep all the cages. Is it definitely wrong to have other hams in the room with her - even if she's used to them? I was planning to get another shelf unit next week and move her in with them then.

I'm not going to take the shelf out. Yes I'd like to see the babies but I'm not even going to try to. I think she loves her nest under the shelf and I don't want to upset her by taking it away.

Originally Posted by pophammy

It is likely that Paws may be carrying cinnamon, so you might get some of them in the litter. We think he is carrying longhair as he is pretty fluffy for a SH satin!

Brilliant!

Regarding family trees, I'd like to keep proper records right from the start - any tips on layout of "pedigree" sheets? Caramel's from Tristar looks good to me so I was thinking of going with that - I could copy it and post it here, if that helps??

Originally Posted by pophammy

Many breeders will sell on their females as pets after one or two litters, but to us a ham is not just for showing but is mainly a pet and a ham to us is a ham for life. When they are 'retired' they still get as much love and attention as the other hams and we would never sell them on to a new owner.

I totally agree - to me they are much loved pets and I'd never "get rid" of any of them once their "useful" life is over - ours are for life as well, it's a small thing to do for an animal that gives so much happiness.

Thanks for the detailed reply

I've got some piccies now:







The rest are blurry but give an idea of her shape and coat:







I know it's hard from pictures but what does she look like? She has a slightly paler area on her nose - I think it's where she chews the bars on the roof of her cage ( ) ...she doesn't do it as much anymore and it does seem to be darkening like the rest of her coat. It's not as obvious when you see her in the flesh but it looks quite obvious in the photos.....

[pophammy]

Aww!!! She is a beautiful young lady. Paws is packing his bags and wants to meet her! She looks very similar to our Red who is a REC and is Paws' sister, but for a REC Red is very dark, as red eyes are normally lighter than black eyes. Red's eyes and ears are almost black, and she is always being judged as a Black Eye! I am sure that Caramel will do brilliantly at shows.

I don't think its wrong to have other hams in the room with her, but I personally wouldn't as I wouldn't want smells/noises/movements etc. from the other hams upsetting her and her litter. I think it is probably the best idea to keep the shelf in. Bailey raised her litter fine with it in and the babies came wriggling out pretty promptly!

The family trees we have had from breeders vary greatly. Some set it out as a proper tree with lines going to the ancestors, whilst others just list them. I think the choice is really yours. We also make pedigrees for our litters ~ we will bring a copy of Paws' and a family tree when he comes to stay. We put the ham's pedigree name (the name we give it), a space where the new owner can put the Pet name, it's colour, eye colour, sex, mother/father's name and colour, no. in litter, date of birth, and pics of it, and parents. It is up to you what you put on your pedigrees really.

Also from the pics, I see she has a lilac wodent wheel. So does Paws!!! They must have been made for each other :P

[pophammy]

By the way, loads of breeders keep the females in with the other hams when they have babies, I know Sheryl at Carrington brings the mums indoors from her ham shed to give birth and raise their pups.

Oops ~ forgot to say Red is a longhair and it won't let me edit! Red also has a small lighter patch on her nose. I don't know if it is because the fur is shorter because she does not chew the bars (though she used to). Here are a few pics of Red so you can see the similarity.

[Holly]

Originally Posted by pophammy

Aww!!! She is a beautiful young lady. Paws is packing his bags and wants to meet her! She looks very similar to our Red who is a REC and is Paws' sister, but for a REC Red is very dark, as red eyes are normally lighter than black eyes. Red's eyes and ears are almost black, and she is always being judged as a Black Eye! I am sure that Caramel will do brilliantly at shows.

Thanks Pophammy - it's kind of hard to tell yourself when you have minimal experience. We (obviously!) think she's beautiful and it isn't easy to be impartial. She's only just over 4 months old now so I guess she still has a bit of maturing to do. I'm guessing she'll get darker - we saw both of her parents at the Hoyland show when we picked her up and they were both quite dark (and absolutely HUGE though I know Tristar hamsters don't have wheels so they tend to be a bit bigger).

Originally Posted by Pophammy

I don't think its wrong to have other hams in the room with her, but I personally wouldn't as I wouldn't want smells/noises/movements etc. from the other hams upsetting her and her litter. I think it is probably the best idea to keep the shelf in. Bailey raised her litter fine with it in and the babies came wriggling out pretty promptly!

Do you think sharing a room with me will bother her? The only other alternative is the spare room with the others (Not Treacle and Custard as they live downstairs).

Originally Posted by pophammy

The family trees we have had from breeders vary greatly. Some set it out as a proper tree with lines going to the ancestors, whilst others just list them. I think the choice is really yours. We also make pedigrees for our litters ~ we will bring a copy of Paws' and a family tree when he comes to stay. We put the ham's pedigree name (the name we give it), a space where the new owner can put the Pet name, it's colour, eye colour, sex, mother/father's name and colour, no. in litter, date of birth, and pics of it, and parents. It is up to you what you put on your pedigrees really.

I'll make a copy of Caramel's for you as well (I think I told Souffle I'd do it ages ago )....I look forward to seeing yours before I make a template for ours.

Originally Posted by Pophammy

Also from the pics, I see she has a lilac wodent wheel. So does Paws!!! They must have been made for each other :P

Now you mention it I think souffle has said this before - there you go then - it must be fate

Red is absolutely stunning
I know she's done well in shows - was there a reason you didn't breed from her? She'll be an Auntie now

[pophammy]

Yes, creams tend to darken with age, so I am sure she will turn out a lovely lady. Paws thinks so anyway!

I don't think she would be bothered about sharing a room with you as long as she isn't disturbed too much. As I said before lots of breeders keep pregnant and litter-raising females in rooms with other hams so you could put her in your spare room with the others.

I would have LOVED to have bred Red but BigD wouldn't let us !!! I am sure she would have made an excellent mother as she is a big softie. She is a bit old now (though she still does the occasional 'tail uppie'!) so we will just have to rely on Paws and Caramel to continue on Nelson and Bailey's line!

[Holly]

Originally Posted by pophammy

I don't think she would be bothered about sharing a room with you as long as she isn't disturbed too much. As I said before lots of breeders keep pregnant and litter-raising females in rooms with other hams so you could put her in your spare room with the others.

I'll have a think about it next week when I get the shelving and sort out the room. She is used to being near other hams downstairs and she also knows them all by smell as we tend to have them all running round the living room in their balls and get them out individually. Whatever I'm doing I need to decide soon as I want her to be well settled before her new hubbi arrives!

Originally Posted by pophammy

I would have LOVED to have bred Red but BigD wouldn't let us !!! I am sure she would have made an excellent mother as she is a big softie. She is a bit old now (though she still does the occasional 'tail uppie'!) so we will just have to rely on Paws and Caramel to continue on Nelson and Bailey's line!

Indeed - and it's pretty exciting now it's getting nearer. Will and I have worked hard over the summer getting caramel as tame as possible (though it's not really work!) and she's very used to us and quite laid back now.

Here's her pedigree sheet just so you can see the layout (I'll make a copy for you in time for Rotherham):

[Basia]

Caramel looks absolutely lovely in her photos Holly, I am sure she and Paws will breed lovely babies.
Looking at your pedigree, Caramel's grandfather is Berry's father!