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Old 11-09-2006, 10:50 PM   #1
Personalityhamsters
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Default How do you Start A Cream Line?

How do you Start A Cream Line?
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Old 11-10-2006, 05:55 AM   #2
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I'm assuming your talking about breeding hamsters? am I correct?
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Old 11-10-2006, 09:01 AM   #3
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yes thats correct...
I am going to a hamster show on saturday to get a cream banded baby boy from a breeder. Im reading on how to start out in breeding my way torwards show quality and color....
Do you have teqhniques or hints on how to get satrted on a cream line?
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Old 11-10-2006, 02:10 PM   #4
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I'm sorry I don't know much about breeding, but I'm sure there is someone here that can lend some advice. Please be sure to post in the appropriate area next time. I'm going to move this thread to "Breeding Hamsters"

Thanks.
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Old 11-11-2006, 01:46 AM   #5
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If you have a particular colour in mind you need to get animals with a known genetic make up to breed that colour. This is not always as easy as it sounds as, though many animals will display that colour (their phenotype- what they look like) their genotype (their genetic make up) may mean they carry different colours in their genes which can be expressed depending on who they are mated to.

The black eyed cream is a recessive gene symbolised by the letter e. Recessive means you need two of the gene for it to be expressed as that colour so it would be ee. If there is only one e present the hamster would be likely to be a golden carrying BE cream but it could be another colour if it had another pair of recessives lurking in the background.

To definitely get creams you need parents who are PURE BE creams not carrying anything else or say two other colours definitely carrying cream. Mating a pure golden to a pure BE cream would give 100% golden babies because each would only have 1 cream gene so it would not show.

If you then mate one of these babies to a BE cream you will by the laws of genetics get 50% golden carrying BE cream and 50% pure BE cream. Mating two pure BE creams will always give 100% pure BE cream. It can be quite hard to get a pure line as when you are looking at breeding other factors must be taken into consideration such as type and temperament as it is not just the colour that makes a show hamster correct.

Most are outbred to different colours to richen colour, improve type and size as doing this brings in new genes which will improve and enrich the line. You need to be very strict about keeping records so you know exactly where your lines are going and what you are aiming to achieve.

So in a nutshell, your aim must be a good breeder who knows their lines and parents who are either BE cream or carry it. Red eyed cream is another story so I wont go in to that now

By the way if your male is banded you are bringing another gene in which is semi dominant. depending on whether he is pure banded BaBa or heterozygous Baba he may breed only bands (pure) or some of each depending on who you mate him to. Unless the breeder knows the lines you may not know whether he is is pure or not so you may not get straight creams from him.
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Old 11-11-2006, 07:02 AM   #6
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Wow souffle.. great post! thanks for taking the time to write that all out! I'm sure Personalityhamsters will appreciate it!
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Old 11-12-2006, 03:11 PM   #7
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Wow, thanks so much that helps alot..
I do appreciate it alot

Im going to start my line off with cotton. Cotton is a short hair blk eyed cream banded. Great temperment, nice head, Perfect band and fur. Shes a bit smaler than i want but im sure we can breed that out...

Im breeding cotton to bandit. Long haired blk eyed cream banded. I got him from ckhammies. His mom is a black tort and his dad is a cinnamon banded. both parents are long haired....
He is also sweet and he does ahve a long head but that can be bred out as well.......

The breeder i got him from says that I will get all short haired cream bnded is this correct?

Also if i were to keep the best daaughter and breed her back to her dad then i would get 50% short haired and 50%long haired?
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Old 11-12-2006, 03:16 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by souffle
By the way if your male is banded you are bringing another gene in which is semi dominant. depending on whether he is pure banded BaBa or heterozygous Baba he may breed only bands (pure) or some of each depending on who you mate him to. Unless the breeder knows the lines you may not know whether he is is pure or not so you may not get straight creams from him.
Both cotton and bandit are banded. Will they only produce banded babies? banded is dominant right?
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Old 11-12-2006, 04:13 PM   #9
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You may not get all bands as it depends if the parents are pure band or not. Yes band is dominant so a banded animal can be either BaBa or Baba. If either parent is BaBa then all the babies will be banded but if both are Baba then the laws of genetics will work so that 25% of the babies would be non banded. However in real life that seldom actually happens!!!

As for the colours well I would doubt that you will get all BE cream banded from this pairing. As the males parents are not creams he is very likely to be carrying other colours particularly with a tort parent. If dad was a cinnamon he is definitely carrying cinnamon I would say. If Cotton is carrying cinnamon you may get cinnamon or red eyed cream babies either banded on non banded.

Was the black tort a tort and white? If not then he is almost certainly Baba so may have straight coloured babies if Cotton is this too. What colours did Cotton have in her last litter? That may give you clues to what she is carrying. It is also possible you could get some long hairs IF Cotton carries long hair. If none of the babies gets either a pair of recessives such as cream ee or cinnamon pp the colour will revert to the wild type golden++. There is a large variety of colours you may get so personally I would not count on all BE SH cream bands!

Remember you will not breed out a fault or improve a point in one or two generations. Personally I would not breed a daughter back to the father particularly if the father does not quite have the head shape you want as you will be magnifying the problem. Better to see if you can borrow a stud male from an unrelated line to bring in new genes to improve this point. We are talking a lot of hamsters here and a lot of time and careful thought so be really sure you want to do this.
How old is Cotton now? 10months is the maximum age we would recommend for a 2nd litter and this would be a final litter.

As an example we bred a short hair BE cream and a short hair Cinnamon satin whom we knew was carrying cream. Also both were very likey to be carrying LH as we were aiming for a LH BE cream satin. Both these hamster had known genetic backgrounds however the male sprung a surprise as he was actually carrying cinammon. We got 2 short hair goldens, 1 short hair cinnamon, 2 BE short hair cream satins, 1 BE short haired cream, 1 red eyed LH cream and 1 red eyed LH cream satin! So you see even with known backgrounds you can get surprises.
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Old 11-12-2006, 07:13 PM   #10
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Well if cotton is a cream banded soesnt both her parents have to be cream banded or carrying it?
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