Couple of concerns from a newbie

[Pebbles82]

Charlie (our last Syrian) didn't bar chew once he was in his 80cm cage and he loved his big 11" wheel. Sometimes they bar chew if the wheel is too small as well, if it's uncomfortable or difficult to run in.

[Gerbil]

Thanks for all your replies. It's frustrating about the cage, I can't see my parents being at all happy about returning it but I do see your point Serendipity. Thinking I don't have a big enough cage does make me feel a bit down since I've always been one of those 'over the top' owners who'll buy a four-foot tank and topper for their gerbils... I'd hate to give Duds a sub-par life.

We've just done a little handling (first proper hold!) and I'm encouraged by how well it went, he padded around on my hands a bit then had a go in his ball, which he seems to enjoy

P.S How do I attach images saved to my computer when replying? I can only see the option to attach a URL

[Poozle]

Hi Gerbil,
I can't really offer any advice on the behaviour side of things, but just wanted to let you know that I took our cage that we got from Pets at Home and got a refund on the basis that it was too small, so definitely worth a try!

[Thin Lizzy]

Phone up the place where you got the cage and ask if they'll take it back, if you don't ask, you don't get.
Weaving thick card through the bars has always worked for me

[cypher]

Gerbil to attach images use the go advanced button below the reply box then scroll down to manage attachments & you can upload them there, you may need to resize them first though.

Good to hear handling is going well.

[Gerbil]

Thanks for your help everyone. I'll have a go at convincing the 'rents today.. Wish me luck!

I think the issue is that they trust pet shops more than forums; they think that pet shops wouldn't be allowed to sell cages that are too small which is sadly not the case. They kind of see people like you guys (and me as well) as fanatics who spoil their pets rather than give them what they need. I wonder if it would help if I showed them some of your replies?

Picture of Dudley on his wheel - the cage is a little cramped to be honest, I can see that after adding some more houses and enrichment

[Poozle]

Originally Posted by Gerbil

Thanks for your help everyone. I'll have a go at convincing the 'rents today.. Wish me luck!

I think the issue is that they trust pet shops more than forums; they think that pet shops wouldn't be allowed to sell cages that are too small which is sadly not the case. They kind of see people like you guys (and me as well) as fanatics who spoil their pets rather than give them what they need. I wonder if it would help if I showed them some of your replies?

Picture of Dudley on his wheel - the cage is a little cramped to be honest, I can see that after adding some more houses and enrichment

Ah! Dudley is a cutie!

I'm afraid I did the same as your parents when I went in to discuss what would be involved in owning a hamster and what we would need before buying my daughter one for her birthday.

I assumed they would be able to give me all the info I needed in a handy one-stop shop, rather than me looking around internet sites and on forums where, if you aren't careful, you can find plenty of misinformation. It was only when we brought her home and we could see how stressed she seemed to be that I started to dig a little deeper and found that it was likely to be the cage size that was the problem. I didn't just take that from one site though, the message was consistent across a number of sites.

When I went back into the shop (Pets at Home) to complain and ask for a refund, the first person I spoke to admitted that they are trained to sell us the smallest size we will need. This sounds counter-intuitive to most sales practices where you would expect them to up-sell, but I guess they think people will be put off if you tell them they need the larger cage. I think that's a shortsighted view as, had they told me the size I would really need from the beginning, I would have happily bought this from them. As it stands now however, I have lost confidence in their advice and would not seek it again, meaning they will have lost future sales to me as I will most likely research first and then buy online.

In terms of not being allowed to sell cages that are too small, well I guess you could argue that the hamster fits in the cage, but doesn't have much quality of life in there. It a bit like intensive/battery farming - it's legal, but it doesn't mean that the animals are happy.

Good luck with convincing your parents!
Poozle

[Poozle]

Sorry, meant to add to that rather long post, that the difference in Nibbles once she was in her new cage was almost immediate. She has stopped chewing the bars and spends loads of time in her wheel now she can fit in it without having to fold herself in half!

[Pebbles82]

Sorry if you already said, but is it the mini duna fun or the large duna fun? The large duna fun (70cm by 40cm) is not a bad size and does have levels, and could be adapted a bit. The mini duna fun is far too small for a Syrian.

He is adorable! But I noticed in your photo that his flying saucer is way too small for a Syrian and that could also be a cause of bar chewing. They sometimes bar chew if something is not right with their wheel or water bottle. It would be extremely uncomfortable and difficult for him running on a flying saucer that is too small - more so than a wheel that is too small because the way they run on a saucer is different, so it does need to be 12". Whereas a wheel could be big enough at 10 or 11" for an average sized Syrian. It looks like a 7" flying saucer which is only big enough for a dwarf hammy (apologies if I'm wrong and it's bigger!) The 12" flying saucer is huge and would take up most of the floorspace probably, so getting something like a 28cm trixie wheel might be a good move and then see if the bar chewing stops.

As it sounds like taming is going well, you could put off upgrading him to a larger cage until he is more tame and settled, if it's the large duna fun, but if it's the mini duna fun I would upgrade now.

If it is the mini duna fun and you need to explain to your parents - then this info might help:

1) There unfortunately is no legal legislation for pet cage size in the Uk - it is a commercial enterprise for pet shops, who can buy small cages for less than £10 and sell them at a massive mark up price.
2) In Germany there is a legal welfare minimum for a hamster of 100cm by 50cm floorspace cage size.
3) In the Uk the RSPCA used to have a recommended minimum cage size of 80cm by 50cm floor space, which is why there are so many 80cm by 50cm cages available. Floorspace doesn't include the floor area of levels, but actual floorspace.
4) The RSPCA no longer have a recommended minimum but say that a cage needs a lot of space and needs to be large enough for roaming space, after the addition of houses, toys and wheels. And needs to be large enough to allow for enrichment.
5) Enrichment is classed as - enough substrate, toys, hidey places, things to do, a level, a house that is big enough to buikd a nest in and is dark inside (ie somewhere to retreat to) which the RSPCA also say is a requirement.
6) It would not be possible to achieve a suitable sized house, wheel, enrichment toys and house, with enough floor area left, in anything smaller than a 70cm by 40cm really (eg something the size of the duna multy or the duna fun large).
7) All pet cages come with a 6" or smaller wheel, regardless of the size of the hamster! This wheel is only big enough for dwarf hamsters, not syrians, and a Syrian runs very curved in a 6" wheel which can cause them back pain (they usually ignore the wheel or start bar chewing).
In the Uk the responsibility to comply with pet welfare legislation is with the owner, not with the pet shops who sell the pets or the cages. The recent Uk pet welfare legislation is a bit vague and woolly, but here it is.

https://www.rspca.org.uk/whatwedo/en...imalwelfareact

The vague and woolly bits are - the need for a suitable environment, and the need to be able to exhibit normal behaviours. This is vaguely covered by their requirements for Syrian hamsters:

This is taken from the link below, with various links to RSPCA recommendations for caring for hamsters



Most pet welfare charities still use the minimum recommended size of 80cm by 50cm in the Uk. Size is not everything though and there is no point having an 80cm by 50cm cage with nothing in it lol. And likewise some owners let their hamsters free roam a lot and their hamster is happy in a not so large cage as a result. But generally, they spend most of their lives in a cage, and are at their most active at night, when in the wild they would run up to 10 miles a night, so a wheel that is comfortable to run in is one of the most important things for their overnight exercise.

If you got the flying saucer at Pets at Home then do get your money back! Take it back and ask for a refund and you can then put the money towards a suitable sized wheel. Although if it's the mini duna fun then a 28cm wheel won't fit, so you would need a cage upgrade, or a 20cm wheel for now. But nothing smaller than a 20cm wheel for a syrian, or a 12" flying saucer.

[Pebbles82]

For some reason number 8 comes up as a smiley face with sunglasses lol. And a slight edit - not "all" cages come with a 6" wheel. The Barney cage comes with an 8" wheel - and is also a large cage. And some cages come with smaller than a 6" wheel! But usually it's 6" that comes with a cage.