Russian dwarf pair: are the fighting or playing?

[floppy91]

Hi I bought my two dwarf hamsters together in early January this year. The pet shop told me they were from the same litter, I'm skeptical because Thunder is brown and Lightning is fluffier, with white with black markings. They live together in the 100cmx50cm Barney Cage. (The pet shop also told me not to put them in this cage because it's too big and they might 'get lost'!).

The cage has two food bowls, two silent spinners, one flying saucer, one sand bath, lots of toys and hiding places, one water bottle.

Thunder and Lightning have occasionally had tiffs, but recently these have become more frequent and more concerning. Yesterday lightning was snoozing on a lava ledge, thunder literally knocked him off it and then they chased each other from one side of cage to another. Twice I have seen them have brief fights where the tumble about quickly (like cats!) . I haven't seen them biting each other and there have been no obvious wounds or signs of ill health.

Both hamsters act like healthy hamsters and run on their wheels, eat, drink, are curious, use their sand bath, look shiny and have bright eyes etc. Usually after a fight they go back to acting normal (I think).

I am struggling to tell if this is a normal tiff or if it's time to separate them. What should I be looking for? How to distinguish if it's serious or not? Anyone been in a similar situation? I will appreciate any feedback!

[AmityvilleHams]

Levels and platforms(even lava ledges)can make fighting more common with dwarf hamsters.

It won't do any harm to separate them regardless,especially since they're already not getting along.It's actually very unnatural to keep same sex pairs or groups,considering in the wild hamsters would be in mixed sex pairs or groups for breeding purposes rather than social purposes.

Just because there are no obvious wounds or obvious signs of ill health doesn't mean it's a positive situation for either hamster.It's an indicator that they're not getting along no matter what,which can and often will lead to worse things.

More often than not,pairs have to get separated even when every precaution is taken.There isn't really a need to keep hamsters more than one to a cage anyways,nor do they benefit from this.In some places forums have discussions of keeping more than one dwarf hamster essentially banned due to being so dangerous.It's much easier to provide enrichment and appropriate space to a single hamster as well,considering how many restrictions a pair or group would have!

[Humphrey_hamster]

I'm not too sure about dwarves as I have a Syrian hamster, but this is what the website I just looked at said,
'Give Them Space
Even though they're friends, your dwarfs may squabble from time to time. Make sure your little guys have room to themselves. You should have a food bowl, water bottle and wheel for each of your buddies. It's a good idea to keep a separate cage on hand in case the disagreement gets a little heated so you can separate them.
Unhappy Family
Sometimes, hamsters who originally got along may decide they don't like one another. Signs to look out for are squabbling that draws blood, one chasing the other hamster around the cage all the time, more squealing and squawking than normal, and one hiding while the other is eating. If one of your little guys starts to lose weight, it could be because he's too frightened to go to the food dish. He'll be jumpy when you try to pet him, too. Since these could be signs that one of your buddies is sick, he should visit his vet. If he's in good health, try a temporary separation. If trouble arises when you put them back together, it's a good idea to house them separately permanently.'
Ps.The pet shop doesn't sound particularly good if they're trying to make you get a cage that's too small for the hamsters

[emil]

I would add in another water bottle, another flying saucer, etc. You need two of everything because some hamster will get territorial over a toy, and the other hamster might also want that toy for themselves. If that doesn't work, I'd recommend separating them.

[cypher]

It's really only something you can judge, if their behaviour is worrying you then it may be time to separate them, they will be maturing now & the cage is probably too big for a pair as more space gives them more opportunity to stake a claim over areas & become territorial.
Pairs can live happily together but some will fall out, it's really up to you whether you feel it's safe to wait & see if things get worse or if you want to separate them now, personally I would generally say it's better to separate too soon rather than wait until one is injured & fights can escalate quite quickly.
People who do keep pairs successfully do seem to agree that it's better to give them less rather than more to minimise fights over things, if you would rather see your hams in a large cage with lots of enrichment, toys etc then you may well do better to keep them individually.

[floppy91]

Hi everyone thank-you for the replies! I have spent much of the day researching this and found lots of conflicting information. Some people have an "it's normal, don't worry unless they draw blood" attitude, but I would hate for it to get to that stage! However I don't want to separate them if there isn't a real problem, they have been fine up until now, with a few 'squeaky' moments, and a few acts of dominance (one pinning the other down).

The more recent fights do not seem to involve a lot of squeaking though, I'm really worried that it's serious. I've been thinking about it, and I see much more of Thunder than Lightning. Maybe it's affecting Lightning more than I realise? Sometimes they seem to get on okay, however it's hard to tell if they are really 'okay'.

If I separate them, will they feel lonely or sad or stressed? Are there any negatives (for the hamster) to being in separate cages?

Would an Alaska cage be appropriate for one dwarf? In the mean time, while waiting for cage to be delivered, should I monitor them and see how it goes? Or should I separate them now by putting one hamster in the 60cm cage for a couple days.

I am worried that something will happen when I'm not here.

But then I'm also worried I'm over reacting; "Squabbles are normal - The general rule for pairs is "No blood, no foul." Wrestling and even squeaking are normal behaviors to establish dominance. However, the moment blood is drawn, the hamsters must be separated immediately. This is part of the reason that it is important for hamster owners to be experienced before housing a pair. An owner needs to be able to tell the difference between normal squabbling and serious fighting." (from Hamster Hideout).

[cypher]

Minor scuffles are normal but any escalation is a cause for concern I think, I have to admit I've never owned a pair (too much of a worrier!) but I do try to take note of things that have been posted in the past by members who do keep them successfully, that does mean I can't add anything more from personal experience though.
I can assure you that hamsters don't get lonely when living alone, it's natural for them & given a little time to adjust to the change they will be quite happy.
An alaska would be fine but you do need to take care setting it up as it's such a tall cage to be sure to avoid any risk of falls.
You sound worried & obviously you can't monitor them 24/7 so it might be as well for their safety & your peace of mind to go ahead & put one in a temporary cage for the time being.

[floppy91]

Thank you everyone for help and advice. They were chasing each other again, and looked fearful. I decided to seperate them for their safety and my peace of mind.

If anyone reading this is in a similar situation, I suggest reading this.

[cypher]

It sounds like you've done the best thing for both you & them, it might take them a little while to adjust but I'm sure they'll be happier in the long run.
I have read that before but wouldn't consider it a reliable or authoritative source for research purposes there are quite a lot of other places you can find info on pairs/groups.

[Hamsterita]

After reading your antepenultimate post I was going to suggest that If you were worried that something bad would happen while you weren't there you were already answering your question.

Anyway I think that you did the right thing! Don't feel bad for them. They aren't lonely creatures and even when some need more time to adjust, they usually end up living happier alone. You can find in this forum a lot of experiences of owners in your same position (as alpacasei and BorisPasha), they had to separate their furries, and now they live all happy in their own cages.