The Dwarfs have turned on me!

[bobbaham]

Hello all,

I haven't posted for a little while but am hoping to get some advice on this one.
I adopted two Russian dwarf hamsters just over a month ago. When I took them in, the owner told me they were tame. I wanted to give them time to settle so I didn't try to handle them straight away but they would happily take a treat from my fingertips and be stroked. No aggression or nipping. It all seemed like it was going to be straight forward!
A couple of weeks ago I moved them into a Detolf so then I could only access the cage from above. Since then the smaller of the brothers (Ronald) has been biting me at every opportunity he gets. He is not afraid of me - if I put my hand in the cage to change food or water he will come straight at me and try to bite. Luckily he's so small that it doesn't hurt.
My saving grace was that the other brother (Donald) seemed very calm and never bit me once. He would walk onto my hand, take treats and be stroked... Until last night when I put my hand in to change the food and he bit me twice
I understand that they're probably doing it because of the way I put my hand into the cage and that I look like a predator. I can't imagine it's to do with getting used to my scent etc. as they didn't bite until they moved into the Detolf. But the other problem is that they don't seem to like coming out of the cage either. A couple of times I've tried to let them out in the bath tub so we're in a neutral space and I can approach 'on their level' rather than from above but they just find the nearest hidey hole, get in and go to sleep!
I was quite upset when Donald bit last night as I have three hamsters and now none of them are completely tame. Bobba, my Syrian, has always been very skittish and although she doesn't bite me any more she has never enjoyed being handled. I'm really glad I took the boys in as they have such a higher quality of life then when they came to me in their tiny, dirty cage but I feel like I must be doing something wrong for all of the hamsters to be aggressive towards or afraid of me.
Sorry for the long post... Any advice very welcome.

[WinnieTheHam]

That sounds like cage aggression, Moving into a big cage can cause this. I'm not too sure what you can do to solve it though. sorry about that but i'm sure someone else who reads this will know.

[FluffySiberian]

It seems to me that your hamsters may have become territorial. If you want to get them out, use a spare cup with a few treats in to lure them in.

[kyrilliondaemon]

I'd consider either partitioning the cage so its smaller or moving them to a smaller cage. It might be that they don't like having quite so much space

[cypher]

It does sound like cage aggression, that's more common in smaller cages where they don't really have enough space for a proper territory, if it's only been a couple of weeks since you moved them they could still be adjusting to the move which can take a while with some hams.
It is possible they don't like the larger space & don't feel as secure as they did before, some hams don't & it can be hard to tell until you try.
Have they got much open space in there or lots of hideouts to make them feel safer?

[bobbaham]

Thanks for the replies everyone.
They have lots of hideouts in the cage cage. Off the top of my head they have a tissue box, wooden house, tunnel, flowerpot, sand box, magazine holder as a shelf, two straw houses and a reptile cave thing and they also like to tunnel under the substrate. From what I can tell they are happy in the cage and they do use all of it, so they're not huddling up in one area or anything. They're not afraid of me, or afraid of moving around the space.
That being said, I do think it's cage aggression in that they're starting to get used to the place and see it as their territory. I took Donald out last night and he actually seemed to enjoy being out for once! He ate some baby food from a lid on my hand and climbed over my arms a few times happily, although he did bite my toe at one point!
I think I'm going to keep taking them out this week in short bursts and see if it improves things. I'll keep you updated!

[cypher]

Maybe they just need more time to settle in then & they might get over the territorial thing a bit, maybe they like it a bit too much lol! good idea to just keep taking them out for short periods & handling them out of the cage, hope it works out!

[racinghamster]

Hi bobbaham. If they are happily scooting around in a lovely big Detolf, they won`t need running around in the bath! So I would spend more time with them while they are running about inside the Detolf, allow them to hop onto your hand (use a pocket hammock to slide your hand into to prevent nips! or an oven glove as this could become their play toy and associate it with your hand. Just lower it down and let them `have a go` at it and your hand will be safe inside the mitten. Let them bite at it. You will probably find the biting stops after a few seconds. Routinely do this when they are wide awake and in a playing mood, not when they are only out for a drink or some food during the day when hamsters prefer to sleep and be left alone.

Patience is the key. Enjoy their antics and don`t worry too much about their biting. Keep up the good work and they will soon realise the `hand` is going to give them a sunflower seed! x

[bobbaham]

Thanks racinghamster, that sounds like a good plan. I had them out again tonight, not because they need to run about but because of getting around 'The Claw' issue (Toy Story reference ; )) Donald almost immediately found a corner and went back to sleep but Donald, the bitier of the two, was really good and had a good sniff of / climb over my hands without nipping once. I was very proud. So I think I'm going to keep getting them out in short bursts and growing our confidence with eachother, then I'll try again with putting my hand in like you've said.
While one issue seems to be improving, however, another raised its head tonight! I noticed that both boys were scratching A LOT. I know that's normal for hamsters but they did seem to be going at themselves vigorously and their skin underneath their fur looked a little red from what I can tell : ( I've taken their sand bath away as I know that can cause dry skin from over-use. Is there anything else I should try, or just keep an eye on them?
Thanks again!

[racinghamster]

It`s difficult to say why they may be scratching/over-grooming but as you say, hamsters do tend to gloom and clean a lot, even while in their beds! So I would just keep an eye on it. Over grooming and irritability are two different things. Irritable scratching would look manic and stressed as if the hamster was jumpy and obsessive, rather than just grooming.

Yes, I would remove the sand too and only introduce the sand dish once your sure it hasn`t caused this behaviour. Hamsters do enjoy a toss around in chinchilla sand, but they don`t actually need sand. My hybrid Russian has never seen the stuff and his coat is lovely and soft. My last two Roborovski boys did have sand and both ended up with patchy and thinning fur. One had very bad dry skin. So after that, I ditched using sand. Wood shavings have dust and some natural oils within them so in many ways, digging underneath the shavings helps to clean their coats too.

That`s a good plan too regarding not having the hamsters out too often and respecting their rest and what they happen to be up to at any given time. Try and read their behaviour and sometimes knowing when to leave them alone helps.

Keep handling and playtimes short rather than half an hour or longer. hamsters do like familiarity, so imagine being scooped out of your safety zone (cage) and plonked onto a floor or into a strange box! That`s why short introductions to such things work better. x