Winter White shows sporadic aggresive behavior...or not?

nowei · 05-14-2015, 09:31 AM

https://youtu.be/HVQetRF8rIY
Heres a link to a quick video me and my roommate shot. We got this little guy (Flint) about a month or so ago, and for the first two weeks he was doing very well with taming. Lately however, he tried to nibble/bite our hands and fingers the moment we put them near him. Even if I lay my hand flat with a big pile of his favorite treats on the palm he doesn't seem to notice it and just goes straight for biting the side of my hand.

He hasn't drawn blood on me (as I'm starting to think he isn't strong enough to bite that hard, or this is just nibbling) but he's broken my roommates skin a few times without profuse bleeding.

Our hands are always washed before we try to handle him, we've tried the tissue paper method, but Flint doesn't seem to care for tissues to use as bedding. We've also tried rubbing our hands in his bedding before going near him.

Flint takes treats fed to him by hand, and will comfortably store them while sitting near the hand but he starts nibbling as soon as he is done taking the treats.

We also try the "cup" method of scooping him out without directly putting his hands in his cage, and 7 times out of 10, when he walks out of the cup onto our hand he will start nibbling the palm. Eventually he seems to "calm down" a bit but will then just start to run everywhere up our arm as if he is trying to get away.

Flint is housed in 2 giant sterlite bins with plenty of toys and chews. He has a wodent wheel and a flying saucer, as well as multiple hidey holes, paper towel tubes, some oxbow food and fresh water.

Would it be prudent to "restart" the taming process? or could something else be up? I really don't want him to be an untameable hamster, as the first Syrian I had when I was a kid was the most hostile little thing ever and I could never play with him (it sucked).

souffle · 05-14-2015, 09:41 AM

That looks like cage aggression. He is seeing your hand as a threat in his territory.
Keep using a tube of box to get him out and never present a finger or side he can bite on. Let him walk on your lap then stroke him from above before letting him on your hand. Don't have the smell of food on your hands. Try using a hand gel before handling as they tend not to like the taste. I have found that dwarfs tend to 'taste' you with a gentle nibble hold so it looks as if he is taking it a bit far as he doesn;t look scared there.

bobbaham · 05-15-2015, 09:46 AM

This is more or less exactly the topic I wanted to post! I have two Russian dwarfs and one is very tame, will happily climb on to my hand whereas the other has started nibbling and biting whenever I get near to him. I thought it might be because I've been hand feeding him treats and so he's started to associate me with food?
Anyway, I think Souffle might be on to something so I'm going to try the bathtub tonight. Hope it works for you!

Thin Lizzy · 05-15-2015, 10:04 PM

The way your hand is put in to Flint's home feels like a threat to him, it's a bit like a big eagle swooping down on it's prey in the wild and Flint feels under attack.
Dwarf hamsters love lots of cover, hidey holes, tunnels and substrate so they can feel safe.
I would do what souffle suggests about the hand gel and take a step back, go at Flint's pace.

nowei · 05-16-2015, 10:07 AM

Bit of an update. We use a glass mason jar to lift him out as he seems to love climbing into it, unfortunately as soon as he steps out onto our hand he will start nibbling our palms (note this is after hand washing, AND using gel, AND rubbing our hands through his carefresh). At what point do we say he is un tameable? Because I would really like to avoid making that decision.

Artisans_uk · 05-16-2015, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nowei

Bit of an update. We use a glass mason jar to lift him out as he seems to love climbing into it, unfortunately as soon as he steps out onto our hand he will start nibbling our palms (note this is after hand washing, AND using gel, AND rubbing our hands through his carefresh). At what point do we say he is un tameable? Because I would really like to avoid making that decision.

I think you said that you have only had Flint for about a month? I certainly do not think that a month is long enough to decide on whether a hamster is going to be tamed or not. Hamsters can take a long long time to settle into their new environments, even when tame, a change can upset them, when I re-homed Bindle, it took her almost three months before she really settled and her true personality came out.

It has only been a couple of days since souffle suggested using a box or tube to transfer him from his cage and it's great that he has taken to using the jar to lift him out but he really needs much more time to feel relaxed and be how you would like him.

Try not to think of him in terms of perhaps not being tameable and think positive thoughts. I understand that you couldn't enjoy the Syrian that you had when you were younger but Flint is a new fluff with a different personality.

As Thin Lizzy suggests, go at Flint's pace, keep using the jar, and stroke him on your lap, as souffle said before letting him climb on your hands. Dwarf hamsters do run around, up arms, down backs (if allowed), they are fast and enjoy exploring. You can keep using the tissue idea, even if Flint doesn't use it for bedding, he will still get to know your scent simply by having the tissue in the cage.

Give him lots of positive encourage and try not to let him know that you are getting frustrated. I agree that the hand in the video could look to Flint as a hunter swooping down.

I am sure if you are patient and let Flint go at his pace, that you will get there. There will be steps forward and then maybe one back. It's a slow and careful process, that can take several weeks/months.

Stay positive.

Thin Lizzy · 05-16-2015, 08:57 PM

A month is a very short time. All hamsters are different.
The tissue trick is a great way for your ham to get familiar with your smell, even if he doesn't use it for his bedding.
Some will stall if they feel stressed out, hamsters can sense our moods. You need to think positive and be calm when you go about taming, encouragement and praise is what's needed.
It may take another couple of months but, go at his pace. The last thing you want is for him to withdraw.

thaiedwin · 05-16-2015, 11:23 PM

I have 2 winter white and had the same issue with one of them.

I kept giving him 1 cube of fruit every 6 -8 hours for 14 days straight. This will let him associate hand with treats. Place is straight at the mouth area.

On the 15th day you may try to pick him up with 2 hands, scoop up from below and try giving him the treats while he is on your hand. If he does take the treat it tells you that he is more or less comfortable with you another good indication is he is sitting on your hand cleaning himself or not trying to run away. It means that is getting used to you.

Do remember some hamsters do not like to be picked up as well. It depends on the personality of the hamster

But do remember that nibble and bites has difference, nibble you can feel it but will not have any pain, but bite you will have pain. Usually winter white bites will not cause bleeding.

Now both of my hamsters are fully tamed and even when I wake them up from sleep, usually at 9pm, after a minute after they wakes up they will run towards the cage door for their treats.

The best treats for hamsters are sunflower seeds , they cannot resist that. But do not give them too much as it will cause obesity for hamsters(It is like eating lots of potato chips for humans.) I usually limit to 1 a day and it is fed while they are on my hand.

Winter whites are usually tamed by nature. But it takes time to fully tame them.

it took 8 weeks for my hamsters to be fully tamed. Now i can pick them up in whatever ways i like( under, over them or by the scuff of the neck(this is for me to check their tooth) ) and they are used to it.

cypher · 05-17-2015, 01:02 AM

I think Artisans covered most of it, do be patient & you will make progress just try not to rush things or give up hope.
One of mine was a biter to begin with & if I had her in my hands & was feeding treats I used a small bowl & held that for her & she began to realise that my hand wasn't food & I can now hand feed her no problem.
She was also very territorial so I used the tissue trick & never put my hand in the cage while she was in there for some time until she became tame enough to voluntarily climb out of the cage door onto my hand. It can take longer if you only have access from above but your ham will slowly settle down given time & patience.

thaiedwin if you have a breeder winter white then giving a little fruit now & then is ok but if you have a pet shop russian it will be a hybrid so fruit (or any sugary treats) isn't recommended.