Large litter of Pups!

[Personalityhamsters]

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Edit by Admin: Just a note that there has been a misunderstanding and the original questions to this post have been removed. So the thread might not make much sense. To summarize Personalityhamsters female hamster had quite a large litter of pups and had some concerns (the usual kinds of concern for a case like this) and managed to get some helpful tips from our forums members. Hopefully the responses from our other members will kind of explain the original questions which are no longer present.

[SnuggleHam]

I would think that there is a high possibility that not all of them are getting nursed that same, that is quite a few babies! If the hamster is a first time mother ...raising the pups might not go so smoothly, that may be why she’s injuring some of them. An ill looking pup will start to turn a grayish-blue color I believe.



I think hand rearing a baby hamster is possible though difficult. Perhaps someone with knowledge about that will post soon. In the mean time, don’t disturb the mother to much, it may lead to cannibalism or aggression. It would be wise to make sure she’s in a nice quiet room, maybe placing light towel over the cage would help.

[souffle]

Take Candace advice and do not disturb the mother hammy just now. You must never pick her up or touch the babies till their eyes are open and taking pictures may make her very nervous and she may kill the babies. Hamster mothers would rather destroy their litter than allow them to be touched. Cover her up and keep her very quiet. Feed extra protein, bits of chicken, tofu, milky porridge and little bits of fresh greens. Be ready to start supplementing early with such a large litter sprinkling wheatgerm, fine oats and tiny bits in the nest from 6-7 days. The babies love baby food from jars..chicken & pasta and stuff with no onions in it. Ours love spaghetti hoops & sausage! The mother may lose a few of the weaker ones. She will often kill the ones she knows are weak or have something wrong. It is natures way and she knows best. Sometimes they will eat the dead young for hygiene reasons but if you see a dead one you should remove it with a clean spoon and not touch the rest. I agree with Candace on the apple nest. They will never fit in soon! Offer some comfy bedding in another area of the cage and if she moves them whip the apple out and leave her with them in the new nest. Good luck with the litter and look forward to seeing them when you can SAFELY take pics without disturbing them. Hand rearing of pups this age is virtually never sucessful. Do not even attempt it. Leave them with mum and let her do her best. It is time consuming and in inexperienced hands you can drown the pups with the drop of milk they can take. They need mothers milk and she should be able to feed that many as long as you keep her well fed. Pleanty water for her too. They do look like they are being rough when they pick them up and occasionally injure one but that is just the way of things. Ours just grab the nearest bit and haul the pups around and it is not often one gets hurt. The enclosed nest may make it more difficult for her to feed them as she cannot stretch out full on her side so hopefully she may move them out to another nest. Do not move them yourself. She must do it and if she chooses to stay put then so be it. Fickle hams! I have just noticed you have taken the strawberry with the babies in out of the cage. This is VERY BAD practice. I know this is your first litter and very exciting but you are risking losing all the babies. I do not even look in the nest till my babies are at least 7 days other than a quick check while the mum is feeding. Please leave them in the cage with mum. No wonder she is upset.

[souffle]

That is excellent news. So glad she has moved the babies as she will find the feeding easier now she can lay out to suckle. You are doing everything right now so fingers crossed we will see some cute little furries in about 10days!

[Personalityhamsters]

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Here's my baby hunny she's actually 7 months but she's my baby still... She gives me kisses

[SnuggleHam]

Sorry to hear about the little ones, I suppose that it was just to big of a litter for her to handle, hopfully she will stop killing them now, though if she is in fact a first time mother, things might not go the best first time around. Just keep doing what your doing, dont remove her from the quiet room and keep the cage covered and try not to peek in as much as possible.



A change of subject.. I noticed that you are double posting quite a bit on the forum. I ask that you please keep your posts restricted to one, rather then reposting after yourself. If you forgot to add something you should be able to edit your original post to remedy the mistake. Ive fixed the others already, so no need to worry about doing it yourself. :)



Thank you, I had send you a PM about it but you must not have seen it yet. You can find your inbox at the top of the page just under the logo.

[babyboos]

You did the right thing taking her to a quiet room but please don't cover her with a towel as she may decide she wants to add it to her nest and pull the fibres through these could be dangerous to her and to her little ones

I have seen limbs severed by thread before and hamsters DO die of impaction.

Try not to be too upset by the deaths as this does happen, especially with young hamsters and first time mums.

Please please can everyone NEVER remove a nest from a cage - even if it does seem to be in a convenient "strawberry". Even the friendliest of mum's can suddenly turn if you do this, and you were lucky she seemed to settle down and just move them. The only time this is acceptable is if the cage becomes flooded or contaminated in some way and requires urgent cleaning. In this situation remove the nest as whole as possible and place and mum in a dark box until the cage is ready to be reassembled. Then return babies and her back, sprinkling seeds in the new substrate. This will hopefully distract her, otherwise you may see manic baby carrying which can cause damage to delicate limbs.

Young babies are often killed due to some unknown illness or weakness only mum is aware of, or just due to sheer numbers. Mums know what they can realistically handle and suckle. An increase in protein levels in advance of her due date can help alleviate but never eliminate such deaths.

[Personalityhamsters]

I understand now! Trust me okay i understand!

She seems to have about 5-10 left... Looking bigger and healthier..

All look banded from what i can see from afar and, ears showing..... Hair is slowly comin too! :P





I placed a shirt over half the cage and she hasnt bothered it!!!!!!!!!

[SnuggleHam]

Just a note that there has been a misunderstanding and the original questions to this post have been removed. So the thread might not make much sense. To summarize Personalityhamsters female hamster had quite a large litter of pups and had some concerns (the usual kinds of concern for a case like this) and managed to get some helpful tips from our forums members. Hopefully the responses from our other members will kind of explain the original questions which are no longer present.



Please continue this thread if desired :)

[souffle]

I am sorry if you have been put off the forum personalityhamsters. I just wanted you to have all the information possible so that you could keep as many of your baby hamsters as possible, I wish you all the best with the litter.

[babyboos]

maybe best to start a new thread - whatever happened here it is now a right mess - and then we can delete this one

we would all love to hear how the little ones are doing

[Personalityhamsters]

they are doing fine!



I also was wondering what the best hand rearing milk would be?

puppy Goats milk

Baies soy formula

regular puppy milk

Kitten milk replacement





? thanks

[souffle]

In the UK the recommended milk would be Lactol available from most pet shops. You could offer this as a porridge made with ready brek and a little wheatgerm to your babies now. Mum would like it too. Once they get to 9-10 days they do not need hand rearing as they lap their porridge themselves. We use 2 teaspoons ready brek, half teaspoon wheatgerm and quarter teaspoon Lactol mixed to a paste with hot water in a shallow dish like a jar lid. Cool till cold (can add cold water) and offer to pups. Ours have always done well on this. You don't need to use the wheatgerm if you don't have any. Glad to hear mum is coping well. What colour are they?

[babyboos]

I use Sherley's Lactol and Jordan's Wheatgerm with all my pups.

I make up a porridge with Hot Oat Cereal (Ready Brek type but usually shop's own brand version) and these in 2 teaspoon Lactol : 2 teaspoon Wheatgerm : 4 teaspoons Cereal respectively. I also add a teaspoon of each or either (depending on what I have to hand) of sesame, pumpkin, sunflower seeds and linseeds to the mix. Actually tastes quite good (I have tried it yes :oops: ). Make up to smooth consistency with soya milk and serve in a small food dish or jar lid. All goes very quickly. Mum's love it as much as babies.

[Personalityhamsters]

Well guy's I cant find lactol anywere? Im so desperate it's not even funny... Babies are 7 days old and will be 8 tommorow! I cant find wheat germ either ive been to 5 petstore's and 3 different grocery stores! I am so lost and there isnt any safe kitten or puppy milk replacement other than that i might be able to use? I have baby oatmeal and soy milk im giving to mum too...



( ps... i need help diagnosing something? Well ive been observing each dead pup mum puts in corner of cage and i see swollen bellies full to the max w/ air and yellowish stuff? Is this mean bad milk from mommy or is it a desiese? Remember dont get on my case about breeding petstore hams it was an accident...) :P



Thanks guys ur so helpful........

[Personalityhamsters]

oh color----

Male Pup- Maybee Golden banded or cream but he's darker than female!



Female Pup- Cream Banded( Perfect white Line in middle like mum)

[souffle]

Where have you tried for Lactol? It is available at Pets at Home which is nationwide. Your local shop should be able to order it for you or you could Google and order on line maybe. Jordans wheatgerm can be found at Sainsbury's and it is in the 'Organic foods' section or most Health Food shops will have it or similar. You can get Ready Brek most anywhere. Your vet should stock a suitable milk substitute and Lactol is a puppy/kitten milk which is probably similar to most brands. At a pinch use soya milk. I cannot really tell what is wrong with the pups. What are you giving them sprinkled on the nest? When a pup dies the bowel bacteria fill the body cavity with gas so that could just be something you are seeing that has happened sadly after the pup has died rather that the cause of death. I doubt there is anything wrong with mums milk. It is probably just bad luck, a large litter and a first time mum. Do you have two left now? I would leave them with her and cross your fingers & toes all goes well. I think if it had been an infection you would have lost them all so here's hoping she keeps these little ones. Where are you in the UK and someone may be able to help out? There is nothing wrong with pet shop hams as long as you know what you are doing when breeding and can home the babies. You need to be careful with the white belly gene when breeding from unknown backgrounds. Keep us posted.

[souffle]

Just had a thought. It is worth checking that mum does not have mastitis which would make her nipples all swollen and hot and hard. Most hammies are quite poorly if they get this and would need vet treatment but it does mean they do not produce enough milk for the pups. Have a look under her tummy. A bit redder and more noticeable is fine when she has pups but not red and swollen.

[Personalityhamsters]

Well I had 10 homes out of the 17 but i dint expect this many to pass! Yes i have 2 babies left a male and a female. They look healthy and i cant see there insides anymore! Im putting quaker oats around the nest along w/ parakeet food... I also have some porrridge i think they wander of and suckle on? Anyways yes ive never taken any babies from mom shes done evrything heself unless i see a dead babie in there for more than a day i remove it! I checked her nipples and theres only 2 nipples that seem a bit swollen... Its the first 2 under her front arms... They dont fell hard or warm though....





Im in the US so ive tried petco, petsmart, Pets delight, Pet depot and Pet city w/ no luck of lactol.... Ill call my vet tonight and see if he carries it or can order it for me? Also Im going to a Healthy farms wish me luck on finding ready brek and wheat germ.... :)

[lizzer]

I think I read somewhere that you live in California. Try Whole Foods. They will have wheat germ. I got some there myself along with some oat bran for a diabetic dwarf. It will likely either be in the bulk food section or the baking goods section.

[souffle]

Quaker oats is good. Wheatgerm I would think any health food store would stock. I think Lactol is a UK make but I would go for any puppy or kitten milk you can get. I think you can get little cartons of made up kitten milk in pet stores. You can here. Ready Brek is the Uk version of an instant hot oat breakfast cereal but if you make the recipe for porridge on the Quaker oats pack that will be just perfect. Just cool it after it is cooked. Try them on tiny bits of tofu, chicken & a teeny bit of greens, brocolli or something now. Also baby food is good. Heinz jars of chicken & pasta or spagettiti hoops & sausage. Mum will take it in to them. I am rooting for them. Candace is in the USA she might know about some stockists.

[Personalityhamsters]

I have kitten and puppy milk from a pet store! Ive tried it on the smaller pups that werent suckling on mom but there bellies swoll up well they were still alive and they lookwd very uncomfortable....Then unfortunatly they died.... Is baby oatmeal w/ soy milk ok for the babies?

[babyboos]

That is for both mum and babies to eat. You need to get some protein and carbohydrates into the babies. I would not under any circumstances touch them or go anywhere the nest however, mum does not sound happy at all, and I would hate for you to ose your final two pups. Place a piece of wholemeal toast near the door next to your jar lid of supplement (oats whatever) mum will collect these and take them back to the nest. Cooked wholemeal pasta works well, especially tuna pasta :wink:



The milk you gave the pups is not ideal for such young hamsters - either use it mixed with food or if you can the powdered form sprinkled dry on the nest - this is ultimately the best variety as it is packed with vitamins. This is really only of use for future reference though. For now I recommend you do not directly interfere with the nest.

[souffle]

As Babyboos said the puppy/kitten milk needs to be mixed into the porridge. Mum will have plenty milk for the two pups so do not worry about them getting enough milk. The other pups would have been too small to digest the milk supplement properly so that could have caused their tummies to distend. Mothers milk contains lots of other special goodies like antibodies to help them fight disease and just the right balance of proteins, fats and carbohydrates to grow healthy little hammies. Do not panic over getting milk. Just feed mum the mix we said and she will pass it on in her milk and by giving it to her babies.

[Personalityhamsters]

Babyboo The mommy hamster is FINE and is not upset at all.... She Hasnt yet showed any signs of being upset.... The 2 babies i have left seem alright for now and ill keep you posted! I am putting oatmeal. baby oatmeal and sm seeds in nest along w/ the whaet germ i found today woohoo! LOL Anyways im still giving mom wheat germ, oatmeal, soy milk warmed and mixed together. She still doesnt seem like she has milk but within a few days well see how babies look(skinny or fat). Ill keep ya posted

Thanks 4 all ur help guys.... :P

[Personalityhamsters]

Momma ham doesnt seem to be showing as much interest in 2 babies as be4... ? Im a bit worried.... Anyways they were born on the 2nd so they are 10 days old now! Im so exited they are getting creases in eyelids showing eye development too! Aww im glad these 2 are doin good... Im still filling nest w/ baby grub...

[souffle]

Don't worry. The mums soon get fed up with the babies and it is normal for them to pay less attention as the pups grow. For the first few days they are like broody hens and sit on the nest all the time but gradually they get back to a normal routine as the babies become more independent. You are almost there now. Are the pups crawling out on little missions yet? You will soon see them out lapping porridge and baby food! When the are 4 wks you can separate the boy and leave the girl with mum till about six weeks. Its a pity you don't have another male to run him on with but never mind. Our Nelson was an only boy and he turned out great! When their eyes open and they are out and about I would love to see some piccies. When they come out start handling them so you have nice tame babies. Stroke them at first after rubbing your hands in bedding and then pick them up over a low soft surface like a bed so if they jump, and they probably will, they will not fall far and hurt themselves

[Personalityhamsters]

Thanks i needed too hear that.. She seems to be out of nest for 2 - 4 hours at night but on nest almost all day! Ive seen pics of 10 day old babies on varies sites and mine seem to look a bit smaller but that seems normal in a litter of 10 or more! Anyways i will definetly send you some pics or post pics when they are about 14 days old so about 4 days :P Also is it normal for a little patch of skin to be peeling from mums bellie? Around one of her bottom nipples...





Also I have a home for the boy. A family or 6 are taking him. they have no other pets but a mouse and the kids are all 10 and up! Everyone wants a male so i might have to keep lil girl ive also grown kinda fond to her. She has a very beautiful pattern as does boy but she seems silkier! Im so exited to see how they come out... I was told id have all goldens but these seem bandeds of some color!

[Personalityhamsters]

Man oh man what would i do with out you guys? I am really grateful for all your advice and help! Even though im a brat sometimes i really appreciate it guys!





Anyways,

I had left some porridge in cage for about 20 mins and i came back and baby girl (Penelopie- Yes, i named her.....) was drowning in it... I immediatly took her and wiped her nose down w/ warm water in case it was in way of breathing.. She got all perky and BIT me and HARD too.... I didnt know they could bite so hard at this age(Only 11 days Old!). I put her back in nest w/ boy whos coming along beautifully and have had no other problems! But to sum it up i gots to be more careful about the porridge they are still a bit young! :P

[lizzer]

I'm sure the breeders here will have ideas, but thought I'd share one I had. Maybe you could try using a smaller shallow dish for the porridge. Shallow bottle caps from water bottles make great little dishes for food. I use them to give small about of baby food to my dwarves.

[souffle]

The jar lid should only be very shallow. Maybe half a cm and with only a little food in it. Try and make the porridge a bit thicker maybe. We have a hammy called Little Red which is short for Little Red Riding HOOP as she fell in the spaghetti hoops when a tiny baby. She was orange! I told you they could be any colour if you did not know the backgrounds so there you are a nice surprise of pretty colours. Penelopie sounds real cute. As to mums tummy, the pups sometimes nip her too and the skin can get dry with the sucking. Our Bailey had a similar dry patch but that soon cleared once the babies stopped nursing. At least you know they are eating well on their own. Persevere with the taming while they are young. It is the best time and they will be tame for life.

[Personalityhamsters]

Well I'm worried again! Babies seem a bit skinny again... Also mom's nipples are so flat against her I can't imagine how the babies getting milk? They aren't as active as usual!

[Personalityhamsters]

Well guys she ate the female and the male is left and skinny! Im thinking about hand feeding him porridge and just born kitten milk untill he's 3-4 weeks... Im so SAD!!! AHH I really cant believe she did that! they are 12 days old tommorow and will be 2 weeks on the 16th! Im probably ganna remove male... I believe if i would have gone w/ my instincts that she doesnt have milk and i would have removed them yesterday but now she's gone... My lil penelopie! :(

[souffle]

Oh I am so sorry about the little one. I don't know what I would do now as there may not be enough suckling now to stimulate milk production. Can you weigh the pup. On first weigh at about 14 days our pups are between 19-23g which I believe is quite a good size. If you handle him she may not take him back. It is 50/50 if he would survive if taken away now. He would need to be kept very warm and though you would probably not need to dropper feed him you would need to make sure he was lapping the milk and porridge and you would probably still need to stimulate him a bit to toilet, and clean him. This is a big undertaking and I think, on balance I would let him take his chances with mum as even if not feeding him much she will still clean and warm him. It is a difficult decision but you must decide. Are his eyes open? Sometimes mum knows if something is wrong and it is just instinct so don't be hard on her. R.I.P Little Penelopie. Sorry about your loss too Brandi.

[Personalityhamsters]

She abandoned boy yesterday and would not let him suckle so I removed him! I have him on a heating pad and in a plastic box! He has a warm nest but I noticed when I took him cold from mums cage his abdomen was filling up w/ air like the rest of the dead pups had! I'm SO disappointed and sad! I am hand feeding him because he wont eat on his own like the female! I'm so sad she's gone because she was so beautiful! Anyway I'm helping him potty about every hour and feeding him before that! His tummy is still swelling but he has hard poo not diarrhea like the others.. Will have to see what my vet says today and ill let you know whats going on with there belly problem cause its left me in the dust! Alright everyone pray for my little boy to make it his family is sad but will take a pup from Hunny if all else fails! :(

[souffle]

So sorry about the little lad. It does not look good but praying he does not suffer any pain.

[Personalityhamsters]

He died This morning at 10 I was so sad! I gave him a kiss before he left.. I made him as comfortable as possible and he went quietly! :) R.I.P LIL Nipper (he would bite me hard! hehe)

[souffle]

You tried so hard for him so be proud of yourself. You gave him your best and he knew he was loved. RIP little Nipper. Better luck with your next litter Brandi. You have learnt a lot and I am sure you will be successful next time.

[Personalityhamsters]

I have learned alot and hopefully my next litter will go good! Im gana breed hunny so babies will be born in july! I gave lil nipper kisses last night and he was so special too me cause i was up all night and day caring for him like his mommy! I miss him and i would have kept him if he lived being i was so attached! Well I know what to do next time and i will definetly post pics when hunnys babies are 3 weeks! :P Thanks guys im so greatful 4 ya help!!!! :P

[Personalityhamsters]

I can also gaurantee I wont bother the nest this time until 3weeks! :P Don't worry I know what to do now and I wont risk loosing these guys! :P

[Personalityhamsters]

Hi guys,
Just wanted to give u an update on the babies....
All 8 of the babies survived and are now 5 months old...
They are all beautiful with great temperments and nice heads and coats. I have 5 of the 8 and they are adorable and double the size of mom and dad hammie... There are6 boys and 2 girls.. Sadly if u do remember we did loose 2 at the beggining of the birth process and they only lived for a few days but they were both gals and i was so sad.....


Heres all 5 of my babies names

Muffin-Super big
Squirt-smallest boy
Sprite-smallest runner up
Chip-medium sized
Dale-big

[souffle]

Aww I am so glad to hear they are all doing so well. Those are lovely names. Bet you have your hands full playing with all your hammies every day! Anyway great to hear from you and keep us updated on their adventures :lol:

[Personalityhamsters]

yes my hands are full but i luv them so its worth every mimute... The other 2 are living with my friend and they are spoiled... Ive found a home for 2 more today so that leaves mw with 3. Im only keeping muffin, the female. Im getting new breeding lines from a breeder called ckhammies. Im getting 3 i think a male and 2 females to start... I still have mum and dad ham from last litter and they are retired and loving life with there new cages and toys ect... Aww retirement sounds good

Im in school now so so busy and im starting a new breeding line with my Pitbulls and hamsters. I run the hamsters but my whole family is ganna work with the pitts. We are focusing on blue and red nose pitts good lines, behaviour and size..

Ill post pics of hamsters soon... :)