Nursery cages

[Emma]

I was wondering if any of the breeders use nursery cages or just leave Mum in her normal cage.



The only downside I can see to that, is if the normal cage has shelves, which an adult can safely climb up/down (when they're not using ladders, as they often don't!) but babies might fall.



Of course if you put Mum in a baby-safe single level cage, Duna-style maybe, then there's the stress for her of moving house.



But if she lives in a baby-safe cage permanently, then there's less opportunity for her to climb about, if she's that sort of hamster. For example I wouldn't want to deprive Hazel of her climbing and her hanging toys (she's stopped chewing bars as much as she did now, I change her cage layout/toys about twice a week and it seems to have distracted her enough). Not that I'm planning on breeding Hazel, don't worry! Have no idea where she came from! But for example, if I did have a ham with a temperament like Hazel's, I'd want her to have the cage with levels usually, but would be worried about it if there were babies in there.



I'm thinking that if the hamster has a pretty steady temperament, then moving her to a safer nursery cage seems the lesser evil than having babies in a possibly unsafe environment. I'd be thinking about moving her early in the pregnany to allow time to settle in - maybe once I was pretty sure she hadn't come back into season after 4 days.



What do others do?

[souffle]

We have raised hamsters both ways. In a 3 level cage and Bailey stayed in her Gabbar Rex. Both litters did fine though with Bailey we removed to corridor shelf 3 days before due date and she went ballistic. We had to put it back as we thought she would lose the litter with the fretting she was doing. We just thought it would be easier for us to see the babies thats all so we just had to wait a bit longer to see them but it added to the fun really. We did take out the wheel in case a little one got stuck under it or something and she didn't mind it. The babies in the 3 levels cage learned to climb like indiana jones at about 3 weeks and caused us no end of worry but all were fine. They could bungee jump off level three and seemed to come to no harm and soon learned about the ladder

[Emma]

But you left Mum in her usual cage?

[pophammy]

Yes, she stayed in her usual cage. Like Souf said, we tried to remove the corridor but Bails was having none of it!

[Pendragon]

That may have been because you left it a little too late.



Nora was in a small wire cage so 2 days before she was due I moved her to a large tub. She sat in the corner and screamed! So I put her back in her familiar, if small and in need of cleaning, wire one. It was her home, after all.



For the first 2 weeks after birth, the mum spends 99% of her time with the babies in the nest. Size of cage is irrelevant since she has no wish to move around much herself. Once the babies are out, they can all be moved to something bigger which yes, although stressful, to my mind it helps them learn and get accustomed to change. Any discomfort by the move is soothed by the extra space, toys, wheel and Mum is around as well. Mums don;t seem stressed at all providing the babies are over the 2.5 week mark.



Tub cages are maybe the best option. One tub isn't big enough for lots of energetic babies, but I have worked out how to add an upper level. I can leave mum & kids in the single tub then at about 2.5 wks I can add an upper level connected by tubes. Mum has somewhere to get away from them, and over time the babies will learn how to used the tube and get up into the extra space. Then it will become a playroom with wheel and blocks and things to explore, while giving Mum somewhere to get away from them if needed. This way they won't have the stress of moving, with their original home still in place, but have the excitement of something new to explore.



However I do like moving babies at 3-4 weeks into a wire cage/s. This is the age they have to be moved anyway, when the sexes need to be split. Wire cages allow the air and sounds of everyday life to get in and helps accustom them to normal home life. I can also speak to them through the wire, get them to come up for treats and in general get more used to smells, sounds and sights of a household without feeling too vulnerable.



Whatever cages you choose at this age they must be of a kind where the babies can't hide - frequent handling is crucial at this age and if they can't be picked out (kindly) at will, then you have the makings of a hamster that knows it can hide and will try to.



But if you have accustomed them to thinking that it's normal for a (known and beneficient) human hand to come in and pick them up and cuddle and soothe once or twice a day, even if they're in bed asleep, then you do end up with much more laid-back hamsters as adults.



It's this kind of positive stress as youngsters that enables them to cope with life later... very few show-breeder hamsters end up getting wet-tail and it's not solely down to resistant lines - show-breeders have an interest and reason to look and handle and see how weight, size, colour, coat or markings are developing, and as long as it's done nicely, then baby hamsters grow up thinking handling is normal and they are better equipped to deal with stress.

[lizzer]

...I have worked out how to add an upper level. I can leave mum & kids in the single tub then at about 2.5 wks I can add an upper level connected by tubes.

Do you have any piccies of this set-up? I don't breed, as you know, but I love this idea of a double-level tub cage.

[Emma]

So pen (scuse me for being slow this morning!)



Do you move your mums into tub cages before the birth (early pregnancy?) or leave them in their usual cage until the litter is 2.5 weeks old and then move all of them into a tub cage?



What size tub cage do you use ie what is it you're thinking is too small for the active pups whilst still with mum? The tubs I'm thinking of as a possible nursery cage are the 64L 'really useful' boxes http://www.reallyusefulproducts.co.uk/u ... 0litre.htm (http://www.reallyusefulproducts.co.uk/uk/onlineshop/b64_0litre.htm) - I think these tubs are really sturdy and a pretty good size, I have several already for storage, I think the size is comparable to what I'm happy with for an adult hamster anyway (without the levels though).



I'd like to add to lizzers request for a photo :)

[Pendragon]

The tub cages I use are Whitefurze, approx 50L, dimensions 16" wide, 22" long, 12" high [40x56x30cm].



I would prefer larger but I don't drive so I'm unable to get to outlets such as Staples (who sell the Really Useful boxes) and have to make do with what I can get locally [and afford].



This is why I am aiming to make as many of them as I can into double-deckers. I've not made one yet, but I know how I can do it - will be making one within the next two weeks for Trifle's babies. It will involve cutting a round hole in the bottom of one box and the lid of the box underneath. Then the top box will be bolted to the lid of the lower.



I have some Rotastak tubes, and have worked out that a corner junction in the top box, two short tube lengths, and an elbow at the bottom will fit perfectly.



If I find the hamsters have trouble with the tubes, I have the option of replacing them with ladders or ramps.



I have a Dremel-type thingy that I use for cutting panels in the boxes (works well) - all my boxes have a mesh panel at the front for ventilation & water bottles (and of course so I can interact with my hammies and feed treats etc).



I'm constantly creviewing and refining my practices, but up until now I've used large glass or plastic (guinea-pig) tanks for mum & babies, moving them to a large wire cage at about 3 weeks for taming. In most cases the tank has been Mum's home from the start. The beauty of the double-decker plan is that Mum can have a tub as her home permanently, with the additional level added once they leave the nest. As most of my tubs are the Whitefurze ones, the top level is interchangeable and can be added to any tub when needed.



Here's Violet in her tub:

http://www.pendragonhams.com/images/violettub.jpg



Trifle with her litter:

http://www.pendragonhams.com/images/trifle-tank1.jpg



Trifle's cage is a similarly-sized Crystal tub rather than a Whitefurze, bought when my local store had run out. I do have the option of converting hers as i have another, though I'm not so keen on the Crystals as the lids just sit on top rather than clip on.

[Pendragon]

?2 should give you an idea of how it will look when done:



http://www.pendragonhams.com/misc/doubletub.jpg



I've put the tubes on the front to show what tube parts will be used and to give an idea of the length. The lower joint is an elbow, which will be about 2" above the floor of the cage - with bedding, the babies should be able to reach.



At the moment someone else is living in the top one, so I can't convert it yet - also need to wait til next week for money to buy a couple more tubs!

[Pendragon]

Well, it's done! :D



Cutting the circles out wasn't as difficult as I imagined - I practiced first on a spare bit of plastic.



http://www.hamsterforum.co.uk/gallery2/d/6847-1/ddside.jpg



Trifle's been shinning up & down the tubes, collecting some nesting material I put in the top, and having a run in the Wodent Wheel.



http://www.hamsterforum.co.uk/gallery2/d/6853-1/ddtubeclose.jpg



http://www.hamsterforum.co.uk/gallery2/d/6841-1/ddinside1.jpg



Unfortunately I've just had to remove the Wodent Wheel - she decided to pull it over & drag it by the stand (maybe thinking she could move it downstairs?) which crashed into the tube-top and disonnected the whole thing! Might have to think about fixing the top junction onto the tube section below it a little more securely - could be superglued I guess.

[Emma]

Looks good :) is she able to easily get around the corners of the tubes? I find rotastak tubes on the small side for 'proper'(!) hamsters.



With mums that you've moved to tubs/etc for the birth & nursery stages, how have you found that? When did you move them (straight after mating, early preg, late preg?)



I do think I'd like my adults to be in large wire cages....but would prefer litters to be in safer tubs....obviously would see how things went, that's just what I'm thinking initially. I'm just wondering about the moving of the mum. I guess that would depend on her temperament anyway - if she's more confident/inquisitive/outgoing/adaptable.



Ho hum.

[Skwee]

When Moo was pregnant I put her into storage :wink: :roll: :twisted:



Only kidding! I put her in her storage bin a week before she had her babies, that way she got used to it happily. She had her babies in the storage tub and at 2.5 weeks I moved the whole family into Moo's original cage (base level + 3 levels so...)



It depends though, I knew Moo hated being in a tank rather than a wire cage... but she didn't mind babies being moved at all, especially as I just placed her whole nest into the new cage lol :lol: but she loved the freedom to escape!, mind you, it didn't last long!