What's your favorite bedding and nesting material ?

[carefresh]

As some of you may know I will be getting a hamster of my own soon...someday...just chilling out... waiting for that day... :wink: Well I was wondering what everybody's favorite bedding and nesting material is ... I am almost definitely going to use Carefresh bedding (hence my username :lol:) and then use toilet paper for nesting material.

[SnuggleHam]

When I was younger and owned my first hamster and gerbils I bought pine and cedar bedding, usually in large bulk bags so it would be cheaper and last longer. I never knew then that cedar was bad for hamsters, in fact I never even read it was bad in any of the books I had about gerbils and hamsters.



I bought this book called "The Hamster handbook” by Patricia Bartlett, and this is the first time I ever saw the subject of using cedar shavings come up.



Of course after reading this and finding out about products like Carefresh and Yesterday's News I decided that’s what my rodents would be using from now on. I want the best for them and I want them to feel comfortable in their cage.



I buy a brand from Wal-Mart here in the US that is a Carefresh equivalent called Critter Care. It’s about 3.85 US for a 10 liter bag of it.



Since its extra absorbent and fluffy it goes far and it’s great at reducing any smells or allergies.

[Emma]

I use wood shavings with shredded tissue paper for nesting material. The Pine shavings widely available in the UK don't have the same problems associated with Cedar etc in the US fortunately. The one time I tried Carefresh I found it quite dusty and didn't like it enough to justify the cost, also the Syrian I was trying it with seemed to like eating it. I know it is quite popular with some owners though due to it being more absorbent (or is that just a convenient excuse for not cleaning out the cage more often :p!!!)

[RyanF]

Carefresh is also super expensive! That's why I don't use it. I use Aspen.

[hammydude]

I currently use Aspen bedding and toilet paper for nesting. I plan to upgrade from Aspen to Carefresh whenever I can get my hands on any. So far I've had no problems with Aspen but I still want to upgade to Carefresh.

[SnuggleHam]

I think I forgot to add that my choice of nest material is unsented/dyed tissue,



They seem to love it and it works fine..



Has anyone seen the white Carefresh? Is that died or naturally white in color?

[carefresh]

I saw the white Carefresh on http://www.petluvers.com - the description of the product says that it has NO dyes.

[SnuggleHam]

I just wondered because someone on another hamster community had said that they recently changed to the white Carefesh bedding and then the hamster started to act lethargic and walking around hunched over.. sounded like Wet Tail and I wondered if there was something wrong with the white Carefresh, but if it's the same, just brighter in color I can't see how that would cause stress in a hamster enough to cause Wet Tail.

[Coco1]

I doubt that would have anything to do with the carefresh. I also use the white carefresh, love it. Its easy to see where they've wet the bedding also as the color shows up! It is free of inks and dyes, clays and chemicals. Is also sanitized to 380 faren. Has extra soft fibers to protect sensitive skin. (so it says!) Nibbles likes it!

[Coco1]

also.... it controls odor longer than regular Carefresh (stated by Carefresh). I've had no issues with odor at all. I clean my tank weekly.

[amnerisryn]

I use Kaytee Soft Sorbent. It's alright but like Emma said about Carefresh, it's a bit dusty and Tinky will sometimes mistake the larger lumps for food. But it does really well at absorbing liquids (as I didn't notice that my previous water bottle was leaking due to it being absorbed #-o) . So far it hasn't bothered Tinky and he likes it well enough (especially for pushing around and burrowing into) so I'm content with it. I did have to find another way of storing it though because the bags it comes in are terrible storage. The small bag fits quite nicely into a Sterilite container and it lasts forever.

[carefresh]

Do most petstores sell the white carefresh ? (I found out it's actually called Carefresh ULTRA)

[Coco1]

I get mine from Petsmart, I'm sure other places sell it. (yes, its called Carefresh "Ultra". _ :lol:

[babyboos]

I worry about hamsters pouching it to be honest - it states on the some packages now that it can cause intestinal blockage so I would be wary with a hamster that likes to chew its litter layer.

[carefresh]

babyboos are you talking about Carefresh ? or Carefresh Ultra ? or both ? or some other kind of bedding ? or... I'm confused ! :shock:

[SnuggleHam]

Hmm if the white stuff controls odour longer than regular Carefresh they must have done something different?? I wonder if that might be harmful.

[Emma]

There has been a lot of posts recently on the HoneyHams yahoo group and the NHC mailing list about Carefresh having a disclaimer on the packet that the product may cause intestinal blockages. Apparently this isn't on all packets and it seems to vary from country to country, I checked a packet when I was in the pet shop recently and couldn't see it anywhere.



I'll go back and read through those posts when I can, see if there was any conclusion from the discussions.

[babyboos]

As far as I can tell it is on the newer packages - some of the bags I have seen in petshops have been there for well over a year - it sadly is still not very popular due to its cost. Many people do not realise it does puff up quite dramatically, and even although it has no real scent of its own like wood shavings it still keeps odours down. I have been using a similiar product called Megazorb which I obtain from an equestrian shop. It is used as a stable bedding material, but also increasingly by small animal owners.

[SnuggleHam]

It does puff up doesn't it.. I'm still getting used to that. It seems I don't put enough of it in, then the next day there is about and inch and a half of it in there lol.

[babyboos]

If you try mixing it with other substrates it really bulks up so I find I was only using about 4 handfulls for a very large enclosure. Roborovski Dwarves love to dig so they will appreciate a nice thick layer, and as they "work" it you should find it puffs up even more.

[Coco1]

Well, I'd certainly like to hear more on the ingesting part, I've not seen that written on the packages I've bought. (I just checked mine all over) On my packet it says - "Impaction and related problems are an inherant risk with any substrate. While Carefresh is non-toxic, you should seek vet care if your pet consumes large quantities of bedding. Observation and proper management will minimize potential impaction problems. Treat impacted crops promptly."

I'm sure that if you have a hamster that does tend to eat its bedding or carry a lot of it / move it around, keeping a close eye on that would be common sense.

As for expansion of this product - I've not seen it! Not in my tank? I put down an inch or so and if anything it becomes more compacted due to the hamster running around on it, it never expands! I would think that expansion would only be due to excessive wettness in the cage?

I guess we've all had or heard different opinions regarding this product. I'm going to go to their site and try to find out more. I definately don't want problems from it being digested. It always seems such a shame / annoying when you find a supposed "excellent" product, supposedly safe, just to find out later it has some hidden threat! Grrrrrrrrrrrrrr!

[SnuggleHam]

Well I find that it fluffs up some, but now that I look at Gerald’s cage (my Syrian) the Carefresh it more packed down. He doesn’t seem to be much of a digger so he’s running on top of it mostly. But my two Roborovskis Machu and Pichu, and my gerbil Orlando are diggers and I tell you they fluff that stuff up a lot! Especially Orlando, gerbils aren’t happy until all their bedding is pushed up into the corners of their cage and all they are left with is a plastic floor :roll:

[Coco1]

LOL Candace! Yes, I mean it does "expand" once you take it out of the bag, of course! I just find that Nibbles runs all over the place and tramples it all back down again! He may dig a little in the corner and fluff that up a little, but that's about it.

Oh and for those of you who wondered what a "crop" is, its not in hamsters, its in birds.... it was refering to the danger of birds ingesting the bedding (just in case you were wondering...).

I just got off their website, read all the information and reviews etc... still could find nothing regarding dangers with rodents in swallowing. Not saying that's not the case though and would still like to read anything regarding this. Let us know Emma if you find out anything more. I couldn't find anything here... (I'm sure the information varies from country to country also... )

:D

[SnuggleHam]

I wondered about the crop thing, I know of it in birds as I have owned many birds and own a lovebird right now. I just wondered if that was another name people used for the cheek pouches in hamsters lol.

[Coco1]

hehehe, that would be funny. Yea, Nibbles crops are totally full as we speak... :lol:

[babyboos]

Oh Coco behave :lol: :twisted:

[Coco1]

lol babyboos! I'll be on my best behaviour, I promise! (all in good fun) :lol:

[peanut25]

I use soft-sorbent for Bears litter because it's white, recycled, doesn't have any dies, soft and pretty inexpensive. It's just like the carefresh bedding but at half the price. For his nesting material I use cotton especially made for rodents.

[babyboos]

I don't want to alarm anyone but I have heard so many bad things about cotton bedding as most modern versions use viscose, rayon or man-made cotton rather than natural fibres. Please do not use cotton bedding before checking if it is disolvable in water. Take a small pinch and pop it into a tumbler of plain water and see what happens - if it disintegrates you are fine, if it stays together in a clump, and when you pull the clump it goes into a long strong thread and doesn't break up then it is what is known as fluffy bedding and has been known to cause death by strangulation and internal blockages. Also the "threads" it pulls into when dry can get tangled around limbs in the hamter's sleep and even amputate them in extreme situations. This type of bedding should NEVER EVER be used with postnatal hamsters or babies.



I use plain, white, unbleached, unscented, spetic-tank safe toilet tissue, with the ply sheets seperated and shredded. Far cheaper and just as absorbent. Fluffy bedding says it is hamster safe often but sadly is not. I would recommend everyone tries this at home :!: :oops:



Even those using toilet tissue please be sure to seperate the ply sheets, and avoid kitchen roll and "thirst pockets" as they are too absorbent and can cause internal blockages as they swell up in the hamster's intestines when eaten.



There does seem to be a few more Carefresh type beddings coming onto the market, and thankfully some are cheaper which may increase their usage. I am currently testing one called Megazorb which is obtainable from equestrian supply shops.

[babyboos]

Has anyone used Alpha-dri, a paper laboratory product, which consists of evenly cut squares with no ragged edges to catch in the coat of hamsters, especially long haired Syrians.

[hammydude]

I bought some new stuff yesterday. It's called Crittercare. Is it safe for Biscuits? From what I have seen on the internet of Carefresh I think this is Carefresh type stuff, it certainly looks like it. If it helps any it says that it - Absorbs 3 times its weight - lasts twice as long as shavings - hypoallergenic. On the back it does have a few paragraphs telling about the dangers of Pine and Cedar, so I believe that it would be safe. If it is safe to use, do I put in by its self or mix it with the Aspen that I have been using?



Thanx for all help, :D :D :D :!: :!: :!:

If it is safe I will put it in the new bin cage tonight.

[carefresh]

From what I know Crittercare is the equivalent of Carefresh, but much more affordable.

[SnuggleHam]

Hammydude this is the same stuff that I use, it's basically the Carefresh equivalent. I buy mine at Wal-mart, as far as I know its the same stuff and I haven't had any problems with it..



I'm not sure how much Carefresh is.. but the stuff I buy is $3 something US

[Coco1]

Sounds interesting. I'll have to check this Crittercare stuff out. I use Carefresh Ultra right now (the white one). What color is Crittercare? I'll check it out at Wal-mart next time I go, may other places sell it too.

[SnuggleHam]

Critter Care is grey

[Coco1]

okay dokey, thanks :-)

[hammydude]

Thank you for the info on Critter Care Candace :) How much did you use in your bin? I used the whole thing in mine. Should I still clean it once a week or once every two weeks?



Coco it's grey,$3 at Wal-Mart, and a whole bag (10 liters) will be enough for the 20 gallon tank you're getting for your hamster.

[babyboos]

Wow Chris that is a whole lot of litter you have in there :!: :D

If you can get Biscuits to use his potty :oops: and clean out the corners if/when they get soiled every day I can see you definitely going a fortnight without a change.

[Coco1]

Thanks Hammy, I'll take a look!

[SnuggleHam]

I probably use about a half a bag of Critter Care bedding in my bins, But I have been mixing in some Aspen bedding just to help give it some more body.



If I were you Coco, I would put less then a whole bag for your Syrian and clean it once a week. Maybe your hamster is different but I don't find that Syrians care to really burrow much, they just like a good amount of bedding in their nest.. At least Gerald does :oops: He doesn't really dig, just runs around and on his wheel.



If you put in less, and cleaned it once a week, you might be getting more for your dollar.

[babyboos]

GOOD Litter:



CareFRESH (recycled paper) - comes in normal grey and ULTRA white (supposed to be evenmore absorbent).



CritterCare - the Wal-Mart cheaper equivalent of CareFRESH



American's Choice (Kiln Dried Pine)



Woody's pets (wood made into pellets)



Yesterday's Newspaper (recycled newspaper made into pellet form)



Aspen - kiln dried and dust extracted



DON'T KNOW Litter:



Alpha-Dri?



Hemp?



BAD Litter:



CEDAR (DANGEROUS!!! GIVES SMALL ANIMALS LUNG/RESPIRATORY PROBLEMS AMONGST OTHER ISSUES SO NEVER EVER, I MEAN EVER USE :evil: DON'T GET IT EVEN IF IT IS CHEAP :twisted: IT IS HORRIBLE :!: )





What about Pine I hear some of you say :?

Pine... now that is a controversial one...

[babyboos]

Anyone have anything to back up or contradict this one? Found on Small and Furries back in January. I am so used to thinking it causes respiratory problems etc. I am dubious but remain open to be proven wrong. I don't see that it is worth the risk though and alternatives do exist, however I look forward to everyone's views and comments.



"The Truth About Pine Shavings"



By Corinne Fayo

This article has been published in the following newsletters:

Mt. Ears (12/97)

Valley Voice (9/97)

PGNDRC Newsletter (1/98)

The News Disrict II NDRC (3/98)



This article has been reviewed by Carol Green a rabbit breeder with a Ph.D. in Pharmacology and Toxicology, her area of research is drug metabolizing enzymes and she has more than 80 publications in the field. She said the article is accurate. And by a medical doctor & research writer who had studied the HME system for six months. Her comments to me were; "If all the phenols do is to induce some of the microsomal enzymes, that's nothing to be concerned about."



The author has a Bachelor of Science degree, wrote "Caring for Your Pet Rabbit" & the Rabbit Education Society Rabbit Care Guide, was interviewed on Television (including nationally broadcast Fox's Pet News), has had several articles about rabbits published in various magazines (including Animal Life, Exotic Market Review, Domestic Rabbits, & Dwarf Digest) has raised rabbits as pets and for show since 1982, is educated in all aspects of rabbit care including health, and is an educator for the RES. The author is a member of the following organizations: World Rabbit Science Assoc.-American Branch, American Rabbit Breeders Association (has held position of committe chairperson), American Netherland Dwarf Rabbit Club, District II NDRC, NYSNDRC, New England NDRC, MVRBA (Past President).



The author wishes to thank her husband, a research scientist in organic analytical chemistry with the NYS Dept. of Health, for technical assistance in the preparation of this article.



The Truth About Pine Shavings



The great pine/cedar debate has been raging on the internet for quite awhile and many people have been mislead about the use of softwood (pine and cedar) bedding for small animals. Many people have been spreading incorrect, inaccurate information and have misinterpreted several scientific studies. Actually reading the studies and correctly interpreting them reveal there isn't a danger in using softwood bedding for animals. After reading this article you will learn that treated shavings are safe and even recommended by veterinarians, the effects untreated softwood beddings cause is not harmful to the animals, and the claims they cause problems such as liver disease, damage, or cancer are not correct.

Hepatic Microsomal Enzymes (HME).



The real "debate" is over whether or not untreated pine and cedar shavings are a danger. It has been proven that untreated pine and cedar contain an inducing agent of HME activity. HMEs are by-products of the liver after processing drugs. "It is simply the way the body-or more specifically, the liver-handles many of the elements it comes into contact with each day."(20). I was also lucky enough to run into a medical doctor/research writer who had studied the HME system for six months. Her comments to me were; "If all the phenols do is to induce some of the microsomal enzymes, that's nothing to be concerned about." She continued with "I know that there are lots of things that both induce and suppress microsomal enzymes in humans, and it's no big deal except when it causes a concomitantly administered drug to be metabolized differently. When that occurs, all you have to do is to adjust the dose of the drug appropriately." After reading the studies which are most often quoted as providing evidence untreated shavings are harmful I must state I don't see where any demonstrate a danger. What I have learned from the studies about HME is that there are many factors which can affect this sensitive system and cause an increase or decrease in activity (2,3,4). This is a partial list from one study (4): Table 1 list of factors affecting drug disposition: air exchange and composition, barometric pressure, cage design, cedar and other softwood bedding, cleanliness, coprophagia, diet, gravity, handling, humidity, light cycle, noise level, temperature, age, cardiovascular function, castration and hormone replacement, circadian and seasonal variations, dehydration, disease, fever, gastrointestinal function, genetic constitution, hepatic blood flow, malnutrition, starvation, pregnancy, sex, shock, stress..." "Dirty environments should now be added to the growing list of factors that affect the extremely sensitive hepatic microsomal system for metabolizing drugs. Among others, these factors include, age; sex; strain; litter of origin; painful stimuli; ambient temperature; degree of crowding; time of day or season of drug administration; hormonal; nutritional; and physiological status; and type of bedding." (2)



As you can see by the factors listed many things can set off a change in HME activity. Dr Hawley's article also mentioned grapefruit juice can induce HME, as did the medical doctor I spoke to (20). So why are the scientists so concerned by HME and the inducing effects of pine and cedar? Several studies mentioned the problem of getting standardized test results in pharmacological studies (1,2,3,4). "Differences in the capacity of various beddings to induce may partially explain divergent results of studies on drug- metabolizing enzymes." (1) "These experiments offer an explanation for differences in the results of studies on drug-metabolizing enzymes in mice and rats." (1) "These numerous factors contribute to large day-to-day variations that have become a major problem impeding investigation of drug disposition and response in laboratory animals." (4) "These data suggest that commercial bedding materials differ in their ability to affect microsomal enzymes. Thus, interlaboratory variability in basal enzyme activities reported in the literature may be partly due to bedding materials used in animal cages." (19) "Pharmacological and biochemical investigations of hepatic microsomal enzymes (HME) in rodents have been plagued by large day-today variations in control values for these enzyme activities" (4). It seems HME activity to the scientists is actually a sort of "background noise" in their experiments, but important to note so test results can be accurately interpreted.



Do the scientists feel untreated pine and cedar should not be used in any laboratory? Not from what I have read in the studies. "Rejection of all softwood beddings because they are potent inducers of hepatic microsomal enzymes does not appear justified." (3). However in an effort to standardize certain test results it is suggested untreated softwood not be used (6). "Softwood beddings have been used, but the use of untreated softwood shavings and chips is contraindicated for some protocols because they can affect animals' metabolism (Vesell 1967, Vesell and others 1973, 1976)." (6). "White spruce may provide a relatively inexpensive alternative to hardwood for studies that require bedding that does not alter barbiturate sleeptime" (3). I think the above quotes illustrate that the inducing effect of untreated softwood shavings is important only to the scientific community in the process of studying drugs and their effects. In addition Dr Hawley writes that "Nearly every commercial laboratory today uses pine, cedar, or other hardwood beddings, except when conducting specific drug metabolism studies." (20).



I did come across an interesting result shown in several studies, accumulation of urine and feces which increase ammonia levels cause a decrease in HME activity (2,3,4). Now we all know increasing ammonia levels can cause damage in our animals. It has been associated with causing increased susceptibility to Pasturella infections and respiratory damage. "The present experiments reveal that drug metabolism in hepatic microsomes was inhibited when urine and feces of rodents were not removed twice daily but permitted to accumulate for 1 week. Inhibition of drug metabolism in rats kept under these conditions may arise from hepatic toxicity due to increased concentrations of ammonia (5) in such environments." (2). May I also point out that I have yet to find in a study a reference to pine or cedar causing hepatic toxicity. Dr Hawley also points out that the presence of these enzymes do not suggest there is damage to the liver (20).



I also found another study which reported that oral administration of praziquantel at a dosage of 1600 mg/kg and 2000 mg/kg caused a significant decrease in 3 drug-metabolizing hepatic enzymes (16). The rabbits who received the dosage of 2000 mg/kg all died within 10-20 hours. In another study rabbits were given aflatoxin to see the effects it would have on liver enzymes (17). None died but body weight gain was altered and again a decrease was noted in some HME, "Biochemical exploration of plasma components revealed a dose-dependent hepatotoxicity characterized by cytolysis and cholestasis." (17). And finally in a study comparing the activity of HME in rats given single or repetitive fluke infections HME decreases were noted (18). Given this evidence I can't come to the conclusion that increased HME activity is a sign of harm being done to a small animal.



Pet owners also argue that untreated cedar and pine cause shortened barbiturate sleeptimes and that would be harmful for an animal undergoing surgery. The increased HME activity does shorten barbiturate sleeptimes in the studies (1,2,3,4) but note that the scientists were testing for this, not performing surgery. The studies have found that sleeptimes were shortest for cedar shavings compared to the softwoods (3,19). There were also differences among different types of pine bedding with white spruce not significantly different than hardwoods but longer than white pine (3). "In other studies, mice kept on pine beddings exhibited hexobarbital sleeptimes intermediate between those of mice kept on red cedar or Douglas Fir (9), and intermediate between mice kept on red cedar or ground corn cobs (10)." (3). Heat treated pine shavings have been shown not to alter sleeptime in comparison to control animals (19).



But does any of the above really affect us and our pets? I don't believe so, there are many factors which affect HME and therefore barbiturate sleeptime (2,3,4,). A study also found increased ammonia levels alter sleeptime and that lowering the room temperature lengthens sleeptime (3). The same study also showed that two different strains of mice studied had significantly different sleeptimes. Also consider this quote "No alteration in the hexobarbital concentration in the brain at the time of restoration of the righting response occurred on any of the softwood beddings tested." (1). "While sleeptimes are decreasing and the microsomal enzyme activity is increasing, the amounts of hexobarbital in the brain on awakening remain unaltered in mice put on softwood bedding; thus, the responsiveness of the receptor sites seems unaffected by softwood bedding." (1). I have not been able to find any scientific references or entries in veterinary books warning of a danger in regard to surgery when animals are exposed to softwood shavings. If altered barbiturate sleeptimes due to softwood exposure were critical during surgery I would think there would be a warning about it.



I also found an interesting section in the Harkness and Wagner book relating to injectable anesthetics in rats. It is stated that sodium pentobarbitol used in rats "poses considerable risk" (7) pg.109. "Pentobaribitol also has poor analgesic properties in rats and produces profound hypothermia and causes excitement on induction (Wixson et al., 1987a,c,d). The young, the females, cooled animals, and possibly the albinos are more susceptible to the drug, whereas males, animals receiving low caloric diets, and animals on cedar bedding are more resistant." (7) Pg 109. The same book also states pentobarbital is not recommend for rabbits.



Heat treated pine shavings are fine for use as bedding and litter for small animals including rabbits. The first piece of evidence is the fact that many people have been using pine shavings for years without any ill effect to their rabbit(s). The next pieces are what the veterinary books and others have to say about the use of shavings for litter. Harkness and Wagner Pg 61: "Bedding, which may be paper, sawdust, or soft pine, aspen, or cedar shavings should be nonallergenic, dust free, inedible, absorbent, nontoxic, and free of pathogenic organisms. Soft pine and cedar wood shavings are used for pet rodent bedding because of their pleasant aroma. However, because volatile hydrocarbons from these shavings may stimulate microsomal enzymes, they are avoided as bedding material for research animals. Softwood shavings and tissue paper make excellent rodent nesting material" (7) TBLR Pg 29 "Bedding must be used in nest boxes. It may be straw, hay, excelsior, wood shavings, or other such material." (8). Hillyer and Quesenberry pg 292 small rodent section: "Pine shavings remain the most commonly used bedding for small pet rodents in many parts of North America. Corncob products and recycled paper products are excellent for certain rodents such as gerbils and dwarf hamsters. Cedar shavings also are popular but their use is controversial. Cedar has been shown to affect microsomal oxidative liver enzymes. Although these changes affect factors such as drug metabolism, no clinical signs associated with them have been documented." (10) Rabbit Production Pg 90 "The nest box should ...contain bedding of hay, straw, shavings, or similar material." Pg 93 "If the does are being fed a ration consisting only of pellets, they may eat any palatable material used for bedding, and in this case softwood shavings...may be used" (9) If the use of softwood bedding was dangerous why on earth would any of these books mention it as good bedding material. All of these books are recent publications and the studies many cite showing a "danger" were published closer to 30 years ago.



Finally we have evidence treated pine is safe from the scientific studies pet owners often quote from (1,3,4,19). The process of heat treating removes the HME inducing agent as demonstrated in the above mentioned studies. It is also mentioned in the National Institute of Health guide to Laboratory animals "Heat treatments applied before bedding materials are used to reduce the concentration of aromatic hydrocarbons" (6). "By two different experimental approaches Wade et al. (47) showed that cedrol and cedrene were active agents in the inductive response of mice to cedarwood bedding. In the first experiment cedar shavings from which cedrol and cedrene had been extracted...produced hexobarbital sleeping times indistinguishable from those observed in control mice housed on inert corncob bedding." (4). I also offer this quote from an HRS educator I wrote to "There are some shavings which are safe, and these are the kiln-dried pine."



I have also heard the rumor cedar causes cancer. I found three studies (11,12,13) and none of them came to the conclusion cedar bedding caused or contributed to the occurrence of cancer. "From these results, the high incidence of cancer in the C3H-AvyfB strain could not be attributed to the routine use of cedar shavings in the bedding material." (11). "Hepatoma incidence in males at 18 months of age was not affected by the presence or absence of cedar shavings in the bedding " (12). "There was no evidence that the cedar shavings were carcinogenic." (13).



The arguments presented by those against softwood bedding often sound convincing on the surface, however closer inspection reveals discrepancies. For example the HRS has made statements that softwood bedding has caused liver disease in rabbits they have fostered and caused the death of rabbits during surgery. I have read the article by HRS founder Marinell Harriman, "Litterboxes and Liver Disease" and question her conclusions. Apparently HRS began investigating softwood bedding after one rabbit died during a routine spay surgery. They maintain that rabbits housed on pine or cedar may risk death during surgery, however they also have made statements that they have not lost many rabbits during spays or neuters. They stopped using softwood bedding after Sarah the rabbit died in 1989 so prior to her death they must not have had problems with surgery on other rabbits exposed to softwood. The article also discussed several foster rabbits had elevated liver enzymes and some had liver disease. Dr Hawley points out that the enzymes tested by veterinarians in a serum or plasma chemistry panel are "leakage enzymes" and not the same enzymes the researchers studied in the softwood bedding experiments (20).



So what could explain the liver disease in the HRS foster rabbits? I checked into liver disease in rabbits, there is very little about it but what I did find is hepatic coccidiosis, which causes an enlarged liver and it is contagious (7,8,9). I would assume the HRS members had adopted the rabbits that had liver disease so it is possible that the rabbits were exposed to hepatic coccidiosis, I feel it is a pretty big leap to assume untreated shavings caused their deaths. From TBLR: Pg 206 long section on hepatic coccidiosis, clinical signs included enlarged liver. pg 267: Liver cancer: "The tumor appears to have little potential as a research model, primarily because of the difficulty of case findings." (8). The common causes of liver spots in rabbits are hepatic coccidiosis, migrating tapeworm larvae, Tyzzer's disease, and colibacillosis (7). So there doesn't seem to be any evidence linking untreated softwoods to liver disease or other problems in rabbits.



Another opponent of softwood bedding is Debbie "The Rat Lady" Ducommun who wrote a long article pointing out the "dangers" of softwood bedding. She stated "Because of the toxic effects of softwood shavings, laboratories have pretty much stopped using them for their animals." Well as we now know this is not the reason some labs would not use them. Also where is the evidence that their effect is toxic? The liver disease connection was also brought up and she stated "unless these animals [rabbits housed on softwood] received full autopsies at death with no sign of enlarged livers or liver disfunction, respiratory infection, or altered immune system, how can they claim that the pine or cedar did not affect them?" I submit that even with a full autopsy how can you tell softwood did, afterall the animal died of something so we would expect to see problems. An enlarged liver is a sign of hepatic coccidiosis (8) so that can't be used as proof. And we know there are other causes of respiratory infection and other things that can alter the immune system. Also obesity can cause elevated liver enzymes and contribute to problems. An autopsy showing the above problems would not be proof that softwood bedding or HME induction caused liver damage.



I think there has been too much "interpreting" of scientific studies and that is what is causing the great pine/cedar scare. As an example let's look at chloroform. If you have municipal water then you and your animals are being exposed to chloroform. Is this harmful? What do the studies say, "Present in the water supplies of many of our cities in concentrations reaching 311ug/1, according to the Environmental Protection Agency, chloroform has also been identified as a contaminant of the air. Thus chloroform can gain entry and accumulate in organisms by both the oral and inhalational routes. From the point of view of this symposium, the question of the effects on laboratory animals of environmental exposure to chloroform is raised. Chloroform is toxic to both the liver and kidney of laboratory animals (12), liver tumors arising after chronic chloroform administration (13)." (4).



It looks like it is, and if you have been giving your animals municipal water you are killing them! Make sure you get a full autopsy done after they die and check for liver and kidney damage as well as respiratory problems to "prove" the chloroform was the cause. Oh wait a minute the study says a little more, "Chloroform is only one of a large number of newly identified environmental pollutants to which laboratory animals are being continuously exposed: continuous exposure of laboratory animals to chloroform, as well as to many other environmental pollutants, could affect the responsiveness of these animals under a wide range of experimental conditions." (4). Well I guess the scientists weren't warning us of the dangers of using municipal water afterall, just discussing how it could affect experimental data.



We and our animals are exposed continually to different "pollutants" in our environment, what matters is the health of an individual and the concentration of pollutants they are exposed to. Some chemicals in small concentrations are harmless but in larger doses are lethal. An example of this is benzoic acid in Listerine. Benzoic acid is toxic if ingested in large enough quantities, the amount in Listerine is well below that amount and therefore is safe for use in humans. It is important not to over-interpret what scientific studies are showing us.



In closing I just want to say I still have not read, experienced, or heard anything that leads me to believe the use of pine shavings are harmful to rabbits. What I have read and experienced shows me they are safe. I still won't use cedar because in the past I heard it could be toxic for a rabbit if they ingest too much of it, plus it has a very strong odor. I included many quotes in this article so you are able to read exactly what the scientists have discovered about softwood bedding and the effects on HME. If one closely looks at the evidence offered that pine shavings are harmful you will see the arguments are weak and lack evidence. Dr Hawley reports pet retailers are being subjected to anger from animal rights advocates who accuse them of selling "dangerous" bedding material (20). It's too bad these people didn't first read the studies instead of subscribing to the "I heard it was bad, so it must be true" theory. But those of you reading this now know more than you ever wanted to about softwood shavings and HME!



References:

(1) "Induction of Drug-Metabolizing Enzymes in Liver Microsomes of Mice and Rats by Softwod Bedding" Vesell 1967, Science.

(2)"Hepatic Drug Metabolism in Rats: Impairment in a dirty Environment" 1973 Vesell, Lang, White, Passananti, Tripp, Science

(3) "Barbiturate Sleeptime in Mice Exposed to Autoclaved or Unautoclaved Wood Beddings." Cunliffe-Beamer, Freeman, Myers 1981, Laboratory Animal Science

(4)"Environmental and Genetic Factors Affecting the Response of Laboratory animals to Drugs" Vesell, Lang, White, Passananti, Hill, Clemens, Liu, Johnson. 1976, Federation Proceedings Vol 35 #5.

(5)Bacterial counts associated with recycled newspaper bedding. 1990 Hogan, Smith, Todhunter, Schoenberger

(6) From the"Guide for the Care and Use of Laboratory Animals" formerly called the NIH Guide

(7) Harkness & Wagner Biology and Medicine of Rabbits and Rodents 4th ed 1995. Note Harkness was featured speaker at HRS vet conference so he is rabbit knowledgeable.

(8)TBLR 2nd Ed, Manning, Ringler, Newcomer 1994

(9) Rabbit Production 7th ed., McNitt, Patton, Lukefahr, Cheeke 1996

(10) Ferrets, Rabbits, and Rodents: Clinical Medicine and Surgery; Hillyer and Quesenberry 1997

(11) Possible Carcinogenic effects of cedar shavings in bedding of C3H-Avy fB mice. Vlahakis G, J Natl Cancer Inst. 1977

(12) Spontaneous hepatomas in mice inbred from Ha:ICR Swiss stock: effects of sex, cedar shavings in bedding, and immunization with fetal liver or hepatoma cells. Jacobs BB, Dieter DK. J Natl Cancer Inst. 1978

(13) Testing for possible effects of cedar wood shavings and diet on occurence of mammary gland tumors and hepatomas in C3H-A-vy and C3H-Avy-fB mice. Heston WE, J Natl Cancer Inst, 1975

(14)Bacterial counts associated with recycled newspaper bedding, Hogan JS, Smith KL, Todhunter DA, Schoenberger PS. J Dairy Science 1990

(15) Comparison of in vitro drug metabolism by lung, liver, and kidney of several common laboratory species. Litterst CL, Mimnaugh EG, Reagan RL, Gram TE, Drug Metab Dispos, 1975

(16) The effect of praziqunatel on the activities of some drug-metabolizing hepatic enzymes in rabbits. Kheir WM, Elsheikh HA, Hapke HJ, DTW Dtsch Tierarztl Wochenschr, 1995

(17) Dose related effect of aflatoxin B1 on liver drug metaboling enzymes in rabbit. Guerre P, Eeckhoutte C, Larrieu G, Burgat V, Galtier P, Toxicology 1996

(18) Comparison of hepatic and extrahepatic drug metabolizing enzyme activities in rats given single or multiple challenge infections with Fasciola hepatica. Biro-Sauveur B, Eeckhoutte C, Baeza E, Boulard C, Galtier P. Int J Parasitol 1995

(19) Effects of cage bedding on microsomal oxidative enzymes in rat liver. Weichbrod R, Cisar J, Miller R, Simmons A, Alvares A, Ueng T. Laboratory Animal Science 1988

(20) "Bedtime Story" by Dr S. Blake Hawley, Pet Age magazine, Nov. 1997 pg. 14-19

[Coco1]

Candace - Yeah I use about a quarter of a bag right now each week in my 10 gallon tank, so half a bag for 20 gallons would be about right. But then I also remove soiled bedding in the potty corners more often. :-) (Can't wait to get a bigger tank, will be another week though... )



Babyboos - Good article. To tell you the truth, I didn't know that the Pine / Cedar caused internal problems. I was aware more of the "allergy" problem regarding their respiratory system and their eyes as being the main problem. Like the article, I am not completely convinced that these beddings do cause any problems internaly however I AM more convinced regarding the allergies as I've known several people whos hamsters have had irritation problems, only for them to disapear after the bedding was changed. The ingredients of Pine and Cedar for example, the phenols and cedols and many of the other componants can be allergens to animals as well as humans. This however may be the case with some animals (humans) where as others are totally unaffected by them.

Also regarding the sleep cycles - I can understand how they are shortened when using these beddings as many pines / cedar oils are stimulants to the nervous system. I am certified in Aromatherapy and have studied these oils and their properties on humans, but A.therapy can is also used on pets with the same benefits / irritant problems. I believe it is the "oils" these beddings contain that would cause more problems externaly than anything else, and only then in SOME hamsters, and not in others. These same Oils can be beneficial in killing certain germs and bacteria and have been used for this reason in many products. The oils of pine in fact have powerful antiseptic properties on the respiratory tract! It is also a brain stimulant (hence the shortened sleep cycles) I somehow doubt they would cause cancer. The same oils can also be used to produce turpentine! Sniff enough of that and yes, we don't like it either! Like in Homeopathy, with the amounts of oils / compounds there is a very fine line as to whether an oil can heal or produce undesired effects.

I say - if there are other beddings out there that are known not to cause any problems, (Yet) alternatives such as Carefresh type bedding and Aspen bedding, then why not use those? I would not use Cedar, but if for some very strange reason the only available bedding I had was Pine I would use it. I personaly prefer and use other beddings.

[hammydude]

Great info on pine and cedar babyboos and coco. I too agree that they will affect some hamsters and others not at all. Even with knowing this I will still stick to Crittercare (Carefresh) and Aspen.

[babyboos]

Coco that is really good reasoning, thank you for your considered reply. Working as a scientist myself we always need facts and evidence to back up everything we do, and I know full well how the truth can be distorted as there are usually differences opinion on most subjects. I like to look at both sides of an arguement rather than just focussing on proving the results of an experiment I have undertaken. If there is any doubt, and suitable alternaties exist it is just not worth taking the risk with our little one's well-being. I use dust-extracted, heat-treated wood shavings in my litter mix with no problems, and have had hamsters allergic to CareFRESH before. I must agree though that NO cedar bedding gets to enter my house. I know some owners in the US who use it because they have ant problems in their areas and this stops them going into their hamsters cages. I have sent them information on the effects of this bedding so they can examine the benefits and drawbacks and hopefully find some other solution.

[Coco1]

Welcome babyboos. I too agree with you regarding the Cedar. The only place I use that IS around the outside of our house in some areas as it helps to keep away ants / termites because of the oils. We also use it under our BBQ area. It has its uses, but hamster habitats are not one of them!

:-)

[babyboos]

I am currently trialling Megazorb as many of you have heard, but I was in the equestrian store yesterday where I get it and saw Hemp bedding and wondered if any of you have heard anything about its suitability for hamsters?

[Coco1]

Not seen / heard of it but will look around here at my local pet store visits to see if any is sold.

[Emma]

I have heard people using hemp bedding but not tried it myself, due to it generally only being sold in ginormous bales for horses, and me not having that many hamsters (yet!). I have seen it in smaller bales designed for small animals, but only on US sites.



I think its should be fine as it's absorbant, and shouldn't have any toxicity problems I wouldn't have thought (as long as no preservatives etc). The only thing is to make sure it's soft and not any hard sharp bits I guess. The hemp beddings I've seen used in stables would be ok, I think, maybe a little coarse for hamsters, but there's probably different brands etc.



Would the equestrian store allow you a little sample to try? Or would you have to take a chance on a big bale?

[babyboos]

I'm sure they will give me some to try out if I ask. They are a family run concern so great customer service :D

[babyboos]

GOOD Litter:



CareFRESH (recycled paper) - comes in normal grey and ULTRA white (supposed to be evenmore absorbent).



Critter Care - the Wal-Mart cheaper equivalent of CareFRESH



American's Choice (Kiln Dried Pine)



Woody's pets (wood made into pellets)



Yesterday's Newspaper (recycled newspaper made into pellet form)



Aspen - kiln dried and dust extracted



Kaytee Soft Sorbent - as used by our member amnerisryn (though finds it a bit dusty)



DON'T KNOW Litter:



Alpha-Dri?



Hemp?



BAD Litter:



CEDAR (DANGEROUS!!! GIVES SMALL ANIMALS LUNG/RESPIRATORY PROBLEMS AMONGST OTHER ISSUES SO NEVER EVER, I MEAN EVER USE :evil: DON'T GET IT EVEN IF IT IS CHEAP :twisted: IT IS HORRIBLE :!: )





What about Pine I hear some of you say :?

Pine... now that is a controversial one...



Check out the rest of this thread for an interesting article on Pine and Cedar as a bedding/litter layer.