colour confusion!

[nooboo]

well pj took a good look at our three Syrians and apart from reckoning that Shadow really is a Mink the confusion remains. She feels that Si cannot be a Silver Grey I think she said something about white patches not being where they should, but what exact colour he is remains as a bit of a mystery. Same problem with Ponder. I can't quite remeber her guesses, hopfully pj will come and say, I was a little too busy being excited about the new arrivals she brought with her to listen attentively. At least I now have 9 hamsters that I know the history and the colour for... but shush no telling I am sure I remember promising I would never have more than 3... then 6... then....

[nooboo]

ah correcting post



pj felt Si is a Melanistic Grey



and Ponder may be a Dark Golden Banded.



it was nice to get someone to have a good look over them.

[PJ]

I'd just like to add that I only recently learnt which end of a Syrian is which ;) but from what I've seen on the show bench and what I've had pass through it's the best colours I can match them to.

[nooboo]

I think even you will admit that neither of them seem exactly one thing or the other

[flogging_molly]

Is this the 2 hamsters that were bred? How old are the litter - sometimes with unknown colours of hamsters it's best to wait until the litter are 2 weeks then you see the range of colours the parents are carrying

[nooboo]

yep they are the ones that bred, but as it's a litter of two it's not much help, other than knowing that Ponders band is not dominant as only one has it :S



one looks a lot like mum just paler, the other I am not sure what will happen, I will put more pictures up later

[pophammy]

As I've mentioned before it is possible that the hamsters may be non-standard and you will never be able to fit them into any colour catagory. This doesn't change the fact that they are gorgeous hams anyway! Glad to see the babies are coming on nicely!

[babyboos]

Shadow looks like a dove in the photographs

[nooboo]

I think thats right, she is now about 5 months old, and she is starting to turn a more orange shade



shame the others still seem a slight problem

[babyboos]

more orange? Well then I would say Mink! The pictures made her look more grey than orange :oops:

[nooboo]

she is very grey just not as pure a grey as she was, in certain lights she seems to be more of an orange hinted grey,



I am sure she is more strongly hinted with orange on a patch near her hip

[babyboos]

maybe if you choose one picture of each the best and then post them here we can have another go... the babies will still be developing so maybe do Shadow first and then look at the proud parents and their offspring...

[nooboo]

was going to see if Dave's mum has a camera, so we can take ones of Si and Hex in better light, with a better camera... I will add it to my list of things for tomorrow



then when we get back I can take some of the others.



my Christmas list may need a camera on it :wink:

[babyboos]

That would possibly be her hip spots?

Lots of cameras being bought this Christmas I think I am getting one too :wink:

[nooboo]

It is more on her hip and on one side, very rough shape, just seems a slight bit more orangey grey than the rest.



she is still very much grey, it just she is now showing signs she will change. for a while she seemed to be a fixed grey with no hint of change

[babyboos]

Oh well see if you can get a picture but a Mink would be more rich gingery all over by her age

Check this thread on Mink and Dove (http://www.hamstercentral.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=784)



This is a Dove Tort and White (Banded)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v302/babyboos/dovetortandwhite.jpg



This is a mature Mink in the middle and a young Mink at the bottom

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v302/babyboos/Picture064.jpg

[nooboo]

thats why I thought she might not be, but she does seem to be getting less grey. She was always a rich grey colour if that makes sense



she has white paws, and a white stripe under her chin, very thin, she has black eyes, or so dark I can't tell that they are not. She also has a very thin ring of a paler colour around her eyes

[babyboos]

if she has eye rings she is Mink - eye rings are caused by the Umbrous gene.



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v302/babyboos/Picture027.jpg



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v302/babyboos/Picture028.jpg



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v302/babyboos/HPIM0994.jpg



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v302/babyboos/HPIM0949.jpg



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v302/babyboos/HPIM0997.jpg



Mink does come in a variation of shade - some are a lot warmer than others[/img]

[nooboo]

as soon as we get home I will try for some better pictures of her with a better light, it seems to be always too much shine on her or too dark!!



you can almost see the rings on a few of the pictures



http://www.hamsterhouse.co.uk/gallery/albums/adultsyrians/shadowcute.jpg



that's her at about 5 weeks old



http://www.hamsterhouse.co.uk/gallery/albums/adultsyrians/shadstill.jpg



that's her at about 4 months, a few weeks back, you can almost see the eye rings. The more recent ones are really poor quality, as it was too dark and the artificial light washed out the colour



http://www.hamsterhouse.co.uk/gallery/albums/adultsyrians/shadowdark4.jpg

[babyboos]

Her colour at 5 weeks is certainly appropriate for either colour. Have a nice weekend at Dave's mothers house and I hope you get some nice pictures.

[nooboo]

managed to get some great pictures of Hex and Si, the camera was amazing!!



the flash did make Hex look at lot more orange in some of them, but there are others that show her colour truer



just need to find the cable now to get them onto the computer

[babyboos]

Mink Short Haired 2 weeks old



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v302/babyboos/mink2weeks1.jpg



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v302/babyboos/mink2.jpg



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v302/babyboos/mink3.jpg



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v302/babyboos/mink4.jpg



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v302/babyboos/mink5.jpg



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v302/babyboos/mink6.jpg



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v302/babyboos/mink7.jpg



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v302/babyboos/mink8.jpg



Mink Short Haired 1 year old

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v302/babyboos/mink91year.jpg

[matinee_92]

Is the hamster in the second picture biting your finger?!? [-X

[babyboos]

No he is resting his head on it :lol:

[matinee_92]

:lol: That's alright then

[babyboos]

Absolutely I don't like Vampire Hams :twisted: :wink:

[nooboo]

well here are some clearer pictures of Si, luckily clearer pictures of the others will be coming, as we have loan of the better camera. I can't believe the difference of quality



http://www.hamsterhouse.co.uk/gallery/albums/adultsyrians/sibed.jpg



you can still see the bite marks on his back on this one, but they look better



http://www.hamsterhouse.co.uk/gallery/albums/adultsyrians/sibed5.jpg



so nice to have clear pictures!



http://www.hamsterhouse.co.uk/gallery/albums/adultsyrians/sibed4.jpg



http://www.hamsterhouse.co.uk/gallery/albums/adultsyrians/sihand.jpg



http://www.hamsterhouse.co.uk/gallery/albums/adultsyrians/sihand3.jpg



you can see his eye cut just on this, it's looking so much better



http://www.hamsterhouse.co.uk/gallery/albums/adultsyrians/sihand2.jpg

[souffle]

Those are lovely pictures Nooboo. Si is looking well after his ordeal. He looks like a Silver Grey to me.

[babyboos]

He looks so much better you must be please. Don't think he'll need to go back to the vet lucky boy. And I am certainly thinking Silver Grey too... SgSg as well homozygous Silver Grey to be precise :wink:

Heterozygous Silver Grey is more similar to Light Grey in appearance.

My batteries are on charge but I will post pictures of my Silver Grey and Light Grey females tomorrow for you to see the difference. I only have SgSg just now but have had Sgsg in the past, sadly I have no pictures of him though :cry:

[nooboo]

he is acting better!



the wheels in the cages here are too small...I was about to take them out when Si realised a way around the problem...he is running on top of the wheel!!



as the wheel is so small it's not much of a fall and he hasn't yet, but it's so fun to see, and to see him being so active and happy



will be so good to get some good pictures of the others, thank goodness Dave's mum is a star (and shouted at him for the cage thing too)

[souffle]

Was Si the father of Ponder's babies? If he was he is definitely not homozygous Silver Grey or else the babies would have been Silver Grey as it is Dominant and they are not. Although heterozygous Silver Greys tend to be a lighter grey/sepia colour they can be the normal Silver Grey colour and I do feel there is a touch of brown/sepia colour about him. I love Silver Greys and he is great.

[nooboo]

yes he is the proud father, our only male syrain so though they were an accident it was easy to figure who was the culprit!!



i do love him, he is so good natured its unbelievable

[babyboos]

I thought the "sepia" tint you see is maybe from Umbrous? He has very dark ears compared to my lot, but then they are not amazing show specimens, although their relatives are. Hex is definitely Umbrous I would say so seeing Ponder will maybe help us decide...



Grey, Silver (SgSg)

Top Coat Soft pastel grey, carried approximately one third of the way down

Undercolour Mid grey

Belly Fur Dull White

Crescents White

Ticking Lightly and evenly ticked with brownish black

Chest Band Brownish black - not solid but concentrated ticking

Cheekflashes Black - not solid but concentrated ticking

Eye Colour Black

Ear Colour Dark Grey



Sepia Grey (Sgsg) is the heterozygous form of Silver Grey, and retains a variable amount of yellow pigment in the coat. There is an interesting article (http://www.geocities.com/calhamassoc/SepiaGray.html) by Lorraine Hill for the California Hamster Asscociation Newsletter you may want to read.