Paddy has a tumour

[i-love-paddy]

I took Paddy to the vet thinking he had constipation-instead he has a massive tumour.



Right now, words cannot express how I feel.



He hasnt been with me long enough to cross over the bridge. :cry: :cry:

[SnuggleHam]

Aww I’m so sorry to hear about Paddy, but what is the whole prognosis? What did the vet seems to say about it? Is it operable? Is the hamster in pain and acting sick? Or will paddy be able to go on a bit longer before you must put him to rest?



*huggles for both you and Paddy*

:cry:

[i-love-paddy]

not sure yet what I'm going to do. I may go for the ultra sound and see what the prognosis is. A lot of people have said I should consider surgery as he is so young - not sure about this. I have felt the lump and it is big - on his left hand side.



to add to this I am hand rearing one of Paddy's pups. I'm going to try hard to pull this off

[SnuggleHam]

I wouldn’t hold it against you if you decided not to operate even if there was an opportunity. I cant imagine that any kind of internal operation on something as small and fragile as a hamster would give much more chance then 50 % of survival.



I have heard of people that had hamsters with tumors allow them to live as long as they were not showing and sign of pain or discomfort. I think maybe it might be a good idea to do an ultrasound, at lest that way you and the vet may have a better handle on what to expect from it and what may be the best thing to do in the situation.



Maybe I’m wrong and surgeries can go well in hamsters. Hopefully someone else will reply soon that may have information.

[Emma]

I'm very sorry to hear about Paddy - it sounds like you have a good vet though who is willing and interested to investigate this kind of thing.



As I said in another thread on lumps, they don't get easier to remove with time, so if you are going to go for surgery, sooner rather than later is the plan.



The choice of surgery vs euthanasia is a very difficult one and there is no right answer, if you decided to let him just go on as long as has a decent quality of life and then let him go to sleep, it wouldn't be the wrong decision.



If it was a choice between surgery or having him put to sleep now, personally I would opt for surgery. The injection we give to let an animal go to sleep is just the same to the animal as if it was having an anaesthetic, so if he then didn't survive the surgery, it wouldn't have been any different. That's just my own thoughts though. There are of course financial considerations too in this, and it's not wrong to have to think about that too.



If you decide to go for surgery there are a number of measures that you and the vet can take to give him a better chance of survival, which we could tell you about if you're interested.



An important thing to remember is that Paddy doesn't know he's ill - so he isn't worrying about this like we are.

[i-love-paddy]

Trouble is the vet has quoted me a huge amount of money for all the investigations and surgery-over £1,000 :(



I am going to the vet on Friday for a steroid injection for him and to discuss maybe having the scan but this alone is £190. I have contacted the PDSA as well to see if they can help me as I just havent got thousands of pounds lying around. ](*,) If I had it, I would do it for him as he is everything to me.



I have been crying and sobbing all night-its really hitting me hard. I never expected this :cry:

[Emma]

£1000 is ridiculous and outrageous. I appreciate you're in the south-east and costs are higher but I would expect around £80-120 max and that'd be including histopathology. I have known similar surgery to cost as little as £20.



I am concerned about giving steroids - this does not seem indicated, granted I haven't seen the hamster. The immunosuppressive effect of steroids is greater in small furries and may not be beneficial at all, so ask your vet about this. £190 for an injection + ultrasound is ridiculous pricing too. I have worked in many veterinary practices, and have never heard anyone charging this much. Without knowing the case very well or the practice concerned, it sounds a bit like they're bumping up the price because it's a hamster (an "exotic").



An ultrasound scan (which should cost around £25 IME) may not be the best method of diagnosis anyway - a simple FNA (fine needle aspirate) may suffice. Also, bear in mind that it is not necessary to get a diagnosis before you go to surgery. The lump could just be removed without any prior tests, it just means that you'll have a little less information about prognosis.



My advice is to ring around other veterinary practices and ask for quotes, and to contact the southern & south of england hamster clubs (I think links are on the HC site) to ask if there are any members who know of good hamster vets in your area. You might try posting on the nhc online list as well http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/nhc-online



I am quite angry actually at the quotes you have been given. Would you mind saying what vet practice you're at?

[i-love-paddy]

A few other breeders suggested steroids.



I'm with Park Vets,Footscray,Kent. They were brilliant when my 2 hamsters had wet tail and that came to nearly £100 inc 4 nights in the hospital.



I was expecting about maybe £40 for a scan, operation maybe £200. When i asked why it was so expensive she said it is still the same price as with any animal as they are using up the time and same equipment.



I normally see a different vet there but he is on leave until next week. Maybe he might quote a different cost.



Im the meantime Im going to ring around and wait for the PDSA to get back to me.



I will mention what you have suggested as well

[Emma]

Those prices would be sky-high even for a cat or dog, I also wouldn't expect a price difference but I wouldn't expect the prices to be that high.



I've never worked in the south-east, I know things are more expensive round London, but really think those are very high indeed.

[pophammy]

I agree with Emma. Those prices sound way over the top. Good grief my poor dog had a tumour and scans, X rays. FNA.s and finally sadly putting her to sleep only came to £214. Our friends ham was cured of wet tail and the bill was £7. I am so sorry about your little one. Sometimes I think putting them through the trauma of vets and ops is all too much and if they do not seem in pain and seem happy it may be best to let them live out their lives as a short but happy one till the times comes, when if need be, you can give them peacful rest

[SnuggleHam]

I’m not sure if this helps ate this point.. But have you tried calling around to see what vets charge different prices? Also I find than city vets are always way over priced, you may want to look traveling a bit further to see a vet out in the country or a smaller town. So maybe you should call around for different quotes.

[i-love-paddy]

I'm only in a small town anyway...



I did go to the PDSA to get a second opinion. They said it is either a kidney tumour or a very bad kidney infection. He is on antibiotics and I have to go back in 14 days.



They said they would scan him, but only if he got quite poorly because at the moment is is still quite lively-mind you this is only when he is out of his cage. They wouldn't operate because it is too risky. They agreed he is very young to have a tumour.



If Paddy suddenly went downhill and was in pain then I would have him put to sleep. But at the moment he is ok so I am not even considering it now.

[babyboos]

To be honest I have heard many stories of PDSA refusing surgery on small animals. They concentrate such efforts on the larger cats and dogs only due to the expense and success rates. I only use the Royal Dick (Edinburgh) Vet School Hospital for any operations and they are non-profit making and always willing to give surgery a go if they feel it is going to be of benefit to the hamster. I have also used Glasgow Vet School Small Animal Practice before and they were amazing. Are you near any vet schools ems? That is a lot of money but one hamster cost me nearly your quote in travel and treatments for urinary infections, pyometra and finally a hysterectomy... You should see the size of a hamster womb :oops: I always make sure I have AT LEAST £750 in the vet fund high interest savings account.



A hard decision to make indeed, I am thinking of you and Paddy. Keep us up to date on the situation.



Emma is there anyone ems can complain to re: the cost of the surgery or are all vets practices a law unto themselves when it comes to fees?



I did a quick check for decent vets in Surrey and these guys have been recommended:

Runnymede Hill Veterinary Hospital (http://www.runnymedevets.co.uk/), Tite Hill, Egham, Surrey, TW20 0NB.

Tel. 01784 436367 Fax. 01784 434691

[i-love-paddy]

If the op was only a couple of hundred pounds, I would do it for him. As you know, I'm dedicated to my hamsters.





Will check the vet school



I hope Paddy doesn't die-doesn't bear thinking about :(

[pophammy]

You are doing your best for the little guy. I think you should wait and see how the antibiotics go. If he was suffering he would not be so chirpy so lets all hope the antibiotics do the trick. Even a couple of hundred pounds would seem a lot for a ham op and we know you would always do your best but no-one would expect this amount in vets bills so do not feel guilty about it. Give it time and hope an op is not needed.

[Emma]

Unfortunately, as far as I'm aware there's no rules about setting fees that vets have to adhere to.



From the RCVS Guide to Professional Conduct (available to read online on the RCVS website):



The RCVS has no specific jurisdiction under the Veterinary Surgeons Act 1966 over the level of fees charged by veterinary practices unless they are so extreme as to constitute disgraceful conduct. There are no statutory charges and fees are essentially a matter for negotiation between veterinary surgeon and client



If you're unhappy with any vet then go here to read about the RCVS complaints procedure http://www.rcvs.org.uk/Templates/Intern ... deID=89655 (http://www.rcvs.org.uk/Templates/Internal.asp?NodeID=89655).



Your nearest university practice will be the RVC's which is in Camden I think, their brochure is online here http://www.rvc.ac.uk/Hospitals/PDFs/Brochure_BAH.pdf.



What actually are Paddy's symptoms? It seems he's had differing diagnoses.

[i-love-paddy]

he has a lump-on the notes it said 1.5cm x 1.5 cm. on the kidney



isnt pooing very well-thats why i took him to the vet in the first place.



has a slight urinary infection



isnt up all night chewing on his bottle as usual-although he is eating and drinking



He is down in the dumps-not himself for sure.



to be honest, i think it is a tumour. i took him out last night and he looked fed up,although he did have a run around. He isnt in any pain that I can see at the moment.