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VilleValoRocks
06-10-2008, 02:31 PM
Hello,
I bought two male robos on Sunday afternoon (today is Tuesday) and Sunday night they were sleeping together and cuddling and whatnot. However, since yesterday they've been squabbling, and Mario (the biggest of the two) only comes out his house to eat, and Luigi didn't come out the tube all day yesterday, but has been playing most of the night tonight, while Mario has been in his house.

They have a fairly small 'starter' cage, but was told this was fine for two robos by the assistant in the shop. I can build onto this with tubes though.

They are both happy to eat out my hand after only 3 days, but 7 times out of 10 when they approach each other it will result in a scuffle lasting a few seconds.

They only have one wheel, which Luigi spends most of his time on if not in the tube. They have two food bowls, the second one added after the first initial fight, which started while Mario was eating and Luigi went to join him. They have one house, which Mario ONLY leaves to eat after he got it yesterday, and Luigi has yet to enter it.

Any help that I can be given would be greatly appreciated, because I am lost, and want my babies to get along, and I am SO scared they don't like each other.

Tammy22
06-10-2008, 02:45 PM
Hiya,

first of all you need to get them sexed properly - maybe post some pics on here and we can help you sex them.

If they are different sexes they need to be separated, if they are the same sex then there is the possibility that they can stay together but there is always the chance of them needing to be separated if they fetch blood - not all Robos are social - you need to keep a close eye on them, some squabbling is normal, especially if they are young as they decide who is the dominant one - some squeaking is normal too - just make sure they sont injure each other.

To help them get along and give them the best chance of staying together you should have two of everything, especially two wheels and always scatter the food instead of using bowls.

You should also have the largest, single stoy cage you can get / afford, as robos do not like tubes very much and can get territorial over different compartments.

Let us know how you get on.

Kind regards,

Tammy x

VilleValoRocks
06-10-2008, 02:50 PM
I've scattered the food as you've said, and I will post pictures when I can handle which I believe will be in a day or two. :D
Thank you for your help :D

Tammy22
06-10-2008, 02:55 PM
That's great, it will help alot.

The best thing to do is to pick up each hamster by the 'scruff' of it's neck - this will not hurt the hamster as long as you make sure you have fim grip without trapping the ears! The hamster may struggle a little, but will soon settle down and you will then be able to get a good look at them and maybe get some pics too.

It is best to do it soon to prevent any unwanted babies.

Kind Regards,

Tammy x

VilleValoRocks
06-10-2008, 02:58 PM
Ok, that's great, thank you. I will post a couple of pictures within the next day or two, and hopefully you'll be able to help me tell what sex they are. :mrgreen:

babyboos
06-10-2008, 03:32 PM
Territorialism can take a few days to beome apparent when moving hamsters to a new environment
Sadly you may have to seperate these guys if the situation does not improve
I would get a new very large enclosure - not tubes and seperate compartments as they can get worse with different areas to defend.
You need to act quick and hopefully you can avert further squabbling
Sexing is important to get sorted out too - so look forward to seeing some pictures soon if you can't see any differences when you have a look at their under carriages. If they look the same good :lol: but differences in young Robos can be quite hard to pinpoint.

arikata
06-10-2008, 08:29 PM
I got 4 robos. 2 kept fight with all the others and in particular with each other. These turned out to be female! I now have 3 cages in my living room. Unfortunatly due to circumstances I couldn't keep one of the females but I rescued a male. 2 males live together now, 1 male on his own and a female with her litter in another cage. I totally agree that robos aren't as sociable as you would think!!

06-11-2008, 12:50 AM
I got 4 robos. 2 kept fight with all the others and in particular with each other. These turned out to be female! I now have 3 cages in my living room. Unfortunatly due to circumstances I couldn't keep one of the females but I rescued a male. 2 males live together now, 1 male on his own and a female with her litter in another cage. I totally agree that robos aren't as sociable as you would think!!

Oh yes, robos can be quite a handful! I currently have 23 of the little darlings and seem to be constantly moving them about as there's always someone who's not getting on with someone else. Every time things settle down and I think I've cracked it, a squabble starts somewhere else. :roll: I have a nightly "bum inspection" to make sure no-one's being bullied too much....if there's any sign of blood, its back to musical cages again. *sigh*

Bunsey
06-11-2008, 07:28 AM
when had my first two i was scared to death over their squabblings and even separated them. Then i came on a forum and was told to try again because they'll get over squabbling as it's down to the new territory. so i sat wincing through their squeeks and they stopped after 2 days and were fine for the next two years as best buds! As long as they both have access to food and there is no biting, rolling round in a ball with teeth in each other or bleeding, then leave them to it.

I really think you need to ditch that cage and buy a bigger flat one such as a gabber rex/lux, zoozone, duna, rody etc. Compartments won't work for 2 dwarfs as they'll try to claim one as their own and you'll end up with serious fighting and separation. Either sell the first cage or keep it as a travel cage or emergency cage.

Ness
06-11-2008, 10:47 AM
I would get rid of the cage, is it a rotastak? I've informed some pets at home staff about the problems with rotastak before, and now they inform buyers who want to listen. some hamsters do like it though, but I would say its a big no for robos.

Right if you don't have enough for a new cage, maybe a bin is a good idea? your'll need to get a clear plastic box thats big, drill holes into it and add mesh and stuff, but these often only come to £10. try and get a really big on, I have some aBOUT 80CM by 35cm, this is great for robos.

it sound likes another wheel would be great.

is there any open cuts on any of them? if there is you will have to split them.

yep tammy can help sex them with photos, most pet shops get the sex wrong. this might be the reason.

VilleValoRocks
06-11-2008, 02:18 PM
I haven't seen them fighting today, but Mario has been going in the tube that Luigi would originally only go into, and both have been spending time on the wheel. Luigi has been going into the house also but only the once.

They have got nose to nose with one another, sniffed each other and then left. Both are eating out of my hand happily.

I have a 'Savic' cage, 'Spelos - for dwarf hamsters and mice' and was told this was perfect for Robos by the staff in 'Pets At Home'. It is 24cm tall, 42.5cm long, and 29.7cm across. I will look into getting a bigger cage sooner rather than later though :) and I intend to post pictures of Mario and Luigi tomorrow. :D

Bunsey
06-11-2008, 02:46 PM
i bought that cage a couple of years ago when i had to separate one robo away from the colony. It's rubbish. all the poops fall out of the tubes at the front and there's no space in there to have a house AND a toy! I then went and bought another one of them and connected the two. worst decision ever! Get rid of that one, don't buy another like i did and loose £50!! i couldn't even sell them. i had to give them away! :cry:

VilleValoRocks
06-12-2008, 02:16 AM
I was cleaning out there cage this morning, and they started to fight in the cardboard box I had put them in while they were being cleaned out. :(
I put some bits and pieces in there to keep them entertained, but they did fight a few times, going for the bum, and at one point they did form a ball while fighting for a second or two. :( they haven't fought since then though, but I've put them back into their cage now.

06-12-2008, 02:38 AM
I was cleaning out there cage this morning, and they started to fight in the cardboard box I had put them in while they were being cleaned out. :(
I put some bits and pieces in there to keep them entertained, but they did fight a few times, going for the bum, and at one point they did form a ball while fighting for a second or two. :( they haven't fought since then though, but I've put them back into their cage now.

That really doesn't sound good to me. I think you need to keep a very, very close eye on them but it sounds like they're on the verge of needing separation. I think its unlikely that they're going to make up, but more that things may escalate further. :(

I had to separate two of my robos last night for a very similar reason. Although there was no blood, one of them was so obviously scared of the other that I decided it was best to split them.

VilleValoRocks
06-12-2008, 03:58 AM
i bought that cage a couple of years ago when i had to separate one robo away from the colony. It's rubbish. all the poops fall out of the tubes at the front and there's no space in there to have a house AND a toy! I then went and bought another one of them and connected the two. worst decision ever! Get rid of that one, don't buy another like i did and loose £50!! i couldn't even sell them. i had to give them away! :cry:

I must admit, it isn't the best cage, what with the poop falling out and there isn't a lot of room to put my hand in the cage.
But if I don't have to seperate them, what sorta cage would you recommend for 2 robos? :)

VilleValoRocks
06-12-2008, 04:00 AM
I was cleaning out there cage this morning, and they started to fight in the cardboard box I had put them in while they were being cleaned out. :(
I put some bits and pieces in there to keep them entertained, but they did fight a few times, going for the bum, and at one point they did form a ball while fighting for a second or two. :( they haven't fought since then though, but I've put them back into their cage now.

That really doesn't sound good to me. I think you need to keep a very, very close eye on them but it sounds like they're on the verge of needing separation. I think its unlikely that they're going to make up, but more that things may escalate further. :(

I had to separate two of my robos last night for a very similar reason. Although there was no blood, one of them was so obviously scared of the other that I decided it was best to split them.

There hasn't been any blood yet, but one of them does seem very scared of the other, so how long would you give it before I make the decision to seperate them or not?

souffle
06-12-2008, 04:06 AM
Have a look on the cage review board.I would choose something like a Gabber Rex or Lux, a savic rody or Duna which they do have in P@H I think or FOP bernie deluxe. These are all reasonable sized tank cages for robos. You could try taking the cage back to P&H saying it is not suitable and ask them to swap it for a Rody which is better.

VilleValoRocks
06-12-2008, 04:14 AM
Have a look on the cage review board.I would choose something like a Gabber Rex or Lux, a savic rody or Duna which they do have in P@H I think or FOP bernie deluxe. These are all reasonable sized tank cages for robos. You could try taking the cage back to P&H saying it is not suitable and ask them to swap it for a Rody which is better.

Ok, I'll have a look, thank you very much :D
I'll give 'em another week or so, and if things haven't improved, or if there has been blood before then, I'll buy them something bigger :)

06-12-2008, 04:54 AM
Have a look on the cage review board.I would choose something like a Gabber Rex or Lux, a savic rody or Duna which they do have in P@H I think or FOP bernie deluxe. These are all reasonable sized tank cages for robos. You could try taking the cage back to P&H saying it is not suitable and ask them to swap it for a Rody which is better.

Ok, I'll have a look, thank you very much :D
I'll give 'em another week or so, and if things haven't improved, or if there has been blood before then, I'll buy them something bigger :)

If I were you, I'd do something now. Things aren't going to improve unless you do something as this has been going on for a while now... I think you have a choice, either separate now or buy a larger cage now and see if that makes a difference. I'd strongly advise against leaving it any longer. I know that's probably not what you want to hear but if things haven't settled down between your little guys by now, your only option is to take some form of action.

Tammy22
06-12-2008, 06:11 AM
Hiya,


The most important thing to do is get some pics on here so they can be sexed correctly - if they are the same sex then that is fine.


i agree with what has already been said - you really need to do something now, as things will only get worse from here, especially if their conditions don't improve - sorry, i don't mean that you are not looking after them properly :oops:, just that the reason they are squabbling is because of thier surroundings (not that their conditions are bad) - hope you understand what i am trying to say!

If things don't change then the fighting will get worse. Souffle has already mentioned the best cages for Robos, but a large glass tank also suits them very well - very easy to clean too and wonderful for observing them - no compartments for them to get territorial over, plenty of space to run around and plenty of space for lots of toys too!!

Once you get a new cage you should fill it with a deep layer of sawdust / shavings (or whatever substrate you use) , scatter food all over the substrate - you can even mix it in with the substrate too - then place two water bowls or bottles in there too. Dont put any toys, wheels, tunnels etc in, you dont really need to put any bedding in either as long as the room isnt too cold.

Then place both hamsters in together - they will probably take more notice of the new surroundings and the buried food and they shouldnt have anything to squabble over either - they should be fine - and then they will use each other to cuddle up to if there is no bedding, although they will probably pile up all of the substrate to make a bed :) - this will get them working together and sleeping together too.

After a week if there is no serious fighting then you can stat to introduce wheels and toys etc, but always put two of everything in and if anything causes a fight then take it out immediately and start again from the begginning.

Sometimes this procedure works, if it doesnt then you obviously have robos who prefer to be on their own, so you will then have to keep them separate.

Good Luck,

Kind Regards,

Tammy x

VilleValoRocks
06-12-2008, 12:28 PM
I'm finding it easier said than done to get pictures of them both, because they are SO fast and difficult to get hold of long enough to be able to take a picture in focus. I will try again tomorrow though, when I have more time.

The main reason I wanna give them a week or so to sort themselves out is because I don't have much money to be able to afford a bigger cage at this exact second what with going to school and everything.
What would be the best cage for around £30? Because that is all I will realistically be able to spend on the cage this month as I've already spend £50 on them since I got them on Sunday.


I appreciate all the help that everyone has been giving me the past few days! :D

Tammy22
06-12-2008, 12:36 PM
Hiya,

i completely understand that hamsters can be very expensive - once you start it is hard to stop, lol :) and they have a habit of costing alot more than people expect!

Ebay is a great place to find cheap cages, ca boots are great too! Do you live in the uk? What area?

I think it might be a good idea to take off the tubes and block the holes up (if possible) at least until you get a new cage - might give them less to squabble over.

In regards to sexing, they will stay still once you get a good hold of them and it will be easy to get a good shot of them - just keep trying.

Good luck,

Kind Regards,

Tammy x

VilleValoRocks
06-12-2008, 12:43 PM
Hiya,

i completely understand that hamsters can be very expensive - once you start it is hard to stop, lol :) and they have a habit of costing alot more than people expect!

Ebay is a great place to find cheap cages, ca boots are great too! Do you live in the uk? What area?

I think it might be a good idea to take off the tubes and block the holes up (if possible) at least until you get a new cage - might give them less to squabble over.

In regards to sexing, they will stay still once you get a good hold of them and it will be easy to get a good shot of them - just keep trying.

Good luck,

Kind Regards,

Tammy x

:lol: It sure does cost a lot to buy ALL the things that you see for them that is SO perfect for them :D :P
I've looked on ebay earlier today and you are right, there is a lot of really great cages on there, but it is just I am slightly concerned about getting the right one for them.

I live in Reading in the UK, about an hour from London, but can't afford to go there, it costs £70 for a return ticket from Reading to London Paddington. :? :lol:

I have held them in my hands, but I am SO scared of hurting them, cause I am not sure of how to hold them without hurting them.

Tammy22
06-12-2008, 12:51 PM
Don't worry about hurting them, you will be fine as long as you get a firm grip of the loose skin around thier neck - please see page 3 on this thread:

viewtopic.php?f=17&t=3376&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=15 (http://www.hamstercentral.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=3376&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=15)

you can see me holding a pregnant robo and she doesnt mind at all (although i wouldnt hold them for too long!)

I will have a look on ebay for you to see if there are any suitable cages which will post.

Tammy x

VilleValoRocks
06-12-2008, 12:54 PM
Don't worry about hurting them, you will be fine as long as you get a firm grip of the loose skin around thier neck - please see page 3 on this thread:

viewtopic.php?f=17&t=3376&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=15 (http://www.hamstercentral.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=3376&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=15)

you can see me holding a pregnant robo and she doesnt mind at all (although i wouldnt hold them for too long!)

I will have a look on ebay for you to see if there are any suitable cages which will post.

Tammy x

That's SO sweet of you, to help me look :D You might 'see' something that is practical etc, whereas, I will just see something that is like "Oh my God, that is SO awesome!!!!!" :lol:

Now that the thread has been pointed out to me, I will look at it now :D

Thank you again, it's so nice of you to help me this way :D

Tammy22
06-12-2008, 12:56 PM
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Hamster-cage-a-we ... dZViewItem (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Hamster-cage-a-week-old-get-a-bargin_W0QQitemZ220242338231QQihZ012QQcategoryZ128 6QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)


This is a Savic Rody, great cage for one or two robos, so would be a good buy even if you had to separate them. Only 21 hours left and will post for £6 too!

Great!!

Tammy x

VilleValoRocks
06-12-2008, 01:01 PM
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Hamster-cage-a-week-old-get-a-bargin_W0QQitemZ220242338231QQihZ012QQcategoryZ128 6QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


This is a Savic Rody, great cage for one or two robos, so would be a good buy even if you had to separate them. Only 21 hours left and will post for £6 too!

Great!!

Tammy x

I looked at that cage, and it looks REALLY good. For only £17 or so as well, should be great :D I'll let you know how I get one.

I'm going to watch Scrubs now, and check on the Mario brothers, :P see ya tomorrow :mrgreen:

Tammy22
06-12-2008, 01:04 PM
That's fine, that' what i'm here for, lol, to help!!

This is another Rody:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Hamster-Cage-Mous ... dZViewItem (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Hamster-Cage-Mouse-Cage_W0QQitemZ150258342905QQihZ005QQcategoryZ1286Q QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

a little more expensive, but it is brand new, and you wont have to wait until the auction ends as it is a buy it now :)

Sorry, i will shut up now, lol, :oops: , yes, see you tomorrow!!

Tammy x

Bunsey
06-12-2008, 01:13 PM
the spelos could well be causing the fighting and it may stop when you get a rody. I had the duna fun for two of mine and then switched to a rody and the fighting stopped. If you do separate, a rody is still good one a single robo, where the spelos is even to small for that.

souffle
06-13-2008, 05:33 AM
Tammy you are a robo star!! I really would consider contacting P@H and saying you were sold a cage which is obviously totally unsuitable and ask them to change it for the Savic Rody which they do stock. If you do need to do an emergency separation you can use one of the large plastic storage bins for one hammy. You could consider making a bin cage and could do this for around a tenner! There are instructions on the WIKI and bins are found at Wilkos, Staples or B&Q. It may be worth checking local small pet stores. We got our FOP Bernie deluxe and Millhouse Ryden there for £20 and they would be fine for 2 robos. You can start without all the acessories just using them as a tank till they settle.
We have had several people lately with fighters who turned out to be pregnant females so you do need to sex them. Very hard I know! Does either look fat? Rounded? Try and get some pics for Tammy to see.

VilleValoRocks
06-14-2008, 03:55 AM
I took some pictures :D Two of Mario and one of Luigi :D

Will upload them when I find the cable for my phone to connect it to the laptop :lol:

VilleValoRocks
06-14-2008, 04:26 AM
Here's Luigi :D

VilleValoRocks
06-14-2008, 04:27 AM
And here's the first one of Mario, the second one came out a bit blurry, so I won't bother posting that one :D

Tammy22
06-14-2008, 04:29 AM
Hiya,

i am sorry, but i wouldnt like to say from those photos - they are not really clear enough or close enough - can you get some more pics of the actual area in question please :oops: ?

Tammy x

VilleValoRocks
06-14-2008, 04:34 AM
Hiya,

i am sorry, but i wouldnt like to say from those photos - they are not really clear enough or close enough - can you get some more pics of the actual area in question please :oops: ?

Tammy x

Ok, I'll take some new and hopefully better ones tomorrow then :D
I would do it now, but I don't have the time, I need to have a bath before me and my boyfriend go out :D

But I'll see you tomorrow :D

Tammy22
06-14-2008, 05:17 AM
It can be difficult to get a good shot, lol :)

i have put some pics below of some of my robos, just thought they might be able to help you out.

This is one of my adult females, but she is pregnant, so everything is a bit moe pronounced:

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w164/gypsy19_2007/th_aeaa333a.jpg (http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w164/gypsy19_2007/aeaa333a.jpg)

You can see the partings in the fur where her nipples are and you can see that there is only a tiny amount of space between the two openings, there is also a sort of line leading from one opening to the other opening, which is the easiest thing to look for when sexing.


This is one of my adult males:

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w164/gypsy19_2007/th_6dda43e7.jpg (http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w164/gypsy19_2007/6dda43e7.jpg)

You can see a prominant scent patch and a large gap between the two openings. The is no line between the two openings and there is usually a slight bulge around this area in the males.


This is a 3.5 week old female:

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w164/gypsy19_2007/th_df91f626.jpg (http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w164/gypsy19_2007/df91f626.jpg)

Even though she is young you can still see the line going between the two openings, but her nipples are not very visible.


and this is her 3.5 week old brother:

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w164/gypsy19_2007/th_33f579c3.jpg (http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w164/gypsy19_2007/33f579c3.jpg)

You can clealy see a larger gap between the two openings and no line either - there is also a slight scent patch too. There is also a slight bulge developing too.

Scent patches can be very misleading though, so it is not a good idea to rely on them for sexing! both sexes can have them and both sexes sometimes look very large or very small depending on the circumstances at that particular moment!

Hope this helps.

Kind Regards,

Tammy x

Tammy22
06-18-2008, 03:04 AM
Hiya VilleValoRocks,

hope the hammies are ok.

Have you managed to sex them yet?

Tammy x

VilleValoRocks
06-18-2008, 04:59 AM
I will upload the pictures I've got done within the next hour. :D

Sorry for taking SO long, I've been SO busy with school the past few days. :(

Tammy22
06-18-2008, 05:05 AM
Oh no, please dont be sorry, i didnt mean for you to post pics 'right now' lol, i was just wandering if you had sexed them.

I understand everyone is very busy :)

Tammy x

VilleValoRocks
06-18-2008, 05:32 AM
I hope you can see ok, the pictures are a bit blurry 'cause they didn't wanna hold still :roll:

Mario first:

VilleValoRocks
06-18-2008, 05:33 AM
And Luigi:

Tammy22
06-18-2008, 05:45 AM
from those pics i would say they were both male - i think :?

try holding them yourself and comparing them to my pics above.

Tammy x

VilleValoRocks
06-18-2008, 06:11 AM
Ok, thank you SO much Tammy, for all your help! :D
I'll try doing that tomorrow 'cause they've been handled a lot today :D