cage size

[redadmiral]

Hello - I was wondering if anyone can point me in the direction of a link, that would teach me how to build my own cage for my russian dwarfs?

I currently have just the beginners one, with one level with the wheel attached. But as they are older and exploring more, its time to go bigger.

I am looking for something ideally with 3 levels, house on one, food on another, play on another kinda thing. Id love it to be wired, as its plastic atm, and Id like them to be able to climb them cage, as they are currently trying to.

Please if anyone has any ideas, could u please let me know. The cheaper the better too.
Thank you all, from Gold and Hotels mummy!!! x:)

[Pie]

For me, I find that Ikea is always a good place to start. :mad: You could just use a Detolf, an Expedit or a PAX and all it needs is glass and mesh, but I prefer to build them from scratch so I picked up parts of a wardrobe that was returned so the parts were being sold super cheap and was able to build my WW's home (150 x 50 cm) for around £50. Here are some inspirations for you:
Detolf (only okay for dwarfs due to the height) (http://www.ikea.com/gb/en/catalog/products/10011055) | Expedit (same as Detolf) (http://www.ikea.com/gb/en/catalog/products/50103086/) | PAX (the one with 50x58x201 is ideal) (http://www.ikea.com/gb/en/catalog/products/80214568/#/70214559)
In an Expedit for example it's very easy to build different levels, but if you're keeping a group or a pair of dwarfs then there should only be one level because they will start having territorial fights and then you will have to seperate them for good.
In any case, the minimum size for a hamster home is 100 x 50 cm and it should be no higher than wide due to air circulation.

[NotsoLittleOlive]

100x50 cm is not 'the minimum size'. It's a size that is often recommended on the forum.
The RSPCA minimum is 75x40 cm.

If you have a pair it's advisable to avoid levels as they can cause fights over territory. A single level, larger space is a better option, so they're more likely to happily coexist after the cage change.
If you use the search function you'll be able to find multiple threads on 'bin cages' and converting ikea furniture :)

[Lougarry]

As others have said, a multi-level cage is a poor choice for groups as it encourages individuals to become territorial over areas of the cage. It also helps to have one wheel per hamster, one hideaway each, etc - and to avoid houses with a single entrance as one could trap another inside.

If cost is an issue I would suggest keeping an eye on eBay for bargain Alexanders, Alaskas, Hamster Heavens, Savic Ruffys, that kind of thing. And if your hamsters like to bar climb it is a good idea to have soft, deep substrate in case they fall. Fitch would be good.

I was going to say hammocks, but what does everyone think about groups and hammocks?

[Pie]

100x50 cm is not 'the minimum size'. It's a size that is often recommended on the forum.
The RSPCA minimum is 75x40 cm.

If you have a pair it's advisable to avoid levels as they can cause fights over territory. A single level, larger space is a better option, so they're more likely to happily coexist after the cage change.
If you use the search function you'll be able to find multiple threads on 'bin cages' and converting ikea furniture :)
75x40 cm is much too small, even (or especially) for any dwarf hamster(s).

Please, for your hamsters' sake, do not acquire or build a cage of that size.
Most of the RSPCA's information is outdated and in this case just plain wrong.
The absolute minimum would be 100 x 40 cm while 100 x 50 cm is even better.
Most 100 cm length tanks are 40 cm wide as well as high though, so that's ok too in that case.
Please do put some more thought into the subject - your hamsters will thank you for it. :)
My Syrians have 140 x 60 cm each and my Winter White has 150 x 50 cm which is absolutely okay.
If you can make more room, then bigger is always better! One of my fosters went to a 200 x 60 tank.

[vanilla-yazoo]

moonlight, there are few cages in most countrys that reach 100cm, we have 3 i know of here, alexander, zz2 and one on ECF, I have had one of the alexander's, but its not always do-able for the owner, the house, and not all hamsters want that much space.
in the uk, the rspca guideline was 80-40 for syrians 70-40 for dwarves, a single dwarf can be happy in a small cage like a 'mini duna' especially when young or old.
when it comes to chewers, and putting them into tanks, its heavy enough an empty 75cm tank, I wouldnt be able to lift a 100cm+ tank without help.
We do try and give as much room as we can, as long as the hamsters are happy, entertained, loved and cherished, they get all the treatment they need should they be ill, then I dont think its cruel to be in a 70-80cm cage.

redadmaral: there are many threads on making bin cages, out of plastic storage boxes, I have made some from the '64 liter' really useful boxes, they work out atr 75-40-30, it feels a comfortable size, if you have ikea's then the slama bins make nice cages, a detolf is brilliant for £40 and just needs a lid, or carefull choise of toys for dwarves,
some people have made cages out of shelving units, wardrobes, and other such pre-build units, but remember the wood needs to be sealed as their wee will soak in and make it rot
I have used a rabbit huctch as a hamster cage, with some modificationt such as tiling the wooden floor and around the edges, it is quite a nice cage, was 130cm long, 40 deep 50 high, and i had two levels, one syrian on each.
with pairs keeping it single layer, as stated above, is best for pairs, as one might claim a shelf for their own, and attack their sibling/cagemate if they try to go onto it, toys with 1 entrance/exit, where they can get trapped by a bully is also best avoided.

congrats on your little dwarfs, I hope they are settling in well :D you must be soo excited to be building a nice cage for them :D

[NotsoLittleOlive]

That's a matter of opinion Moonlight. It may well be what you advise and what you use, but it isn't a rule, so it shouldn't be stated as such.

@redadmiral - if you check out the "show us your cages" thread, you'll see several DIY cages and get a feel for the kind of dimensions people use for groups.

[Kissa]

The whole minimum size thing is a thorny subject. I know the US minimum is 360 square inches, which to me seems small for any ham, never mind an active dwarf or Syrian. The UK's RSPCA minimum (http://www.rspca.org.uk/servlet/BlobServer?blobtable=RSPCABlob&blobcol=urlblob&blobkey=id&blobwhere=1169720056106&blobheader=application/pdf) of 75x40 works out at 3000 square cm/465 square inches. The German minimum I believe is 100x40 cm, so 4000 square cm/620 square inches.

The NHC (National Hamster Council here in the UK) minimum is ridiculously small, as it's 1000 square cm/155 square inches for a Syrian and 750 square cm/116 square inches for a dwarf. However, I don't think the site has been updated for years, and certainly three or four years ago, views in the UK were that hamsters didn't need that much space. While we know better now, I don't think the NHC website has been updated to match.

The forum's recommended minimums are 80x50 cm for a Syrian, and 70x40 for a pair of dwarfs. I personally think the dwarf sizes are too small, and something more like 80x50 should be for a pair, but people happily keep dwarf pairs in ZZ1s, which are 70x45 IIRC.

There's an interesting post about cage sizes, complete with pictures, over on the Dashing Hamsters blog: Dashing Hamsters: Minimum Cage Sizes (http://dashinghamsters.blogspot.co.uk/2011/04/minimum-cage-sizes.html)

[Lougarry]

Let's not start all this again! 100cm would be lovely but for most people is impractical. 80 x 50, which is what many people here would recommend is a good size. I have two robos who live happily together in a Zoozone 1.

[kyrilliondaemon]

Just for the record - I do use cages of those sizes. Our dwarf hams have 100cm by 50cm, our syrians have converted rabbit hutches.
It doesn't mean everyone should. We managed it, but frankly - Peep was quite happy in his Alaska and thats 80cm by 50cm.

No set figure is right for all hams. For Whizz a mini duna (at 55cm by 39cm) was best for her first six months with us. Now she's better with bigger - but an Alexander when we got her would've been borderline cruel in all honesty.
Skip - Another robo, he had an Alexander right up to his last days, kept the shelves, used the space. For most hams the age he reached, they'd need smaller by that point. We were waiting for the day we needed to take his shelves, take his wheel, maybe even downsize the cage. It never happened, but for most hams it does.

All hams are different. I think that in 99% of cases 70cm by 40cm, or 80cm by 50cm is a good minimum. Thats my view. Our personal limits are 100cm by 50cm as a minimum for dwarf hams, but thats impractical for most so the smaller limits work. Peoples hams are happy and thats the main thing :)


Redadmiral - I think my suggestion would be an Alaska. Its cheap, but at 80cm by 50cm is a good size and has fast become our favourite 80cm by 50cm cage. It has bars and hams can climb, but as the bars are 8mm they're small enough for even young dwarf hams to be safe.
Alternatively the Alexander is what we keep our female hybrid pair in, and our male pair will go to one in January. Both are great cages and would work really nicely if you can get them :)
Shelves are definetly best left out though I'm afraid.

Oh and Lougarry - I'm not yet sure what we think of hammocks for pairs. I'm 99% sure it'll depend on the pair but we may experiment with it in future and if we do I'll let you know what happens if I remember to :)

[redadmiral]

Thank you everyone for your comments and suggestions, sorry it has taken me a while to reply! I will take on board what you have all sais, thank yuo all once again :-) xx

[redadmiral]

ooh, just to add, I agree that multiple levels will cause fights, and im fairly keen on the bin idea, I will be buying a few more toys and things to keep them occupied also.

Oh and guess what??? Just after xmas I will be gaining another dwarf hammy, one of my friends' daughter has given up on looking after her hammy, so has asked me to have it, so I am really excited to be adopting another! Its a shame that the hammy she was paired with didnt make it thru, but the lil girls has be doing well since April 12' s I shall be looking forward to another addition!! x