why were the three golden standards reduced to one

[Matty Day]

I thought I would ask this why were there once 3 standards for golden that’s been reduced to one surely removing the 3 standards removes variety? As most breeder breed to the standard colourwise

[Carrington]

For the last couple of years, my ex-husband worked very hard to breed 'pure' golden syrians (wild type hamsters carrying no other colour genes). This has been successful and the hamster colour is in fact paler than the dark golden standard which is currently in use.

I think it is fair to say that most show goldens carry black or possibly dark gray. Both of these colours accentuate the black ticking resulting in the dark standard.

In my opinion the medium/normal standard that was scrapped is probably the correct one for a pure golden - they tend to have less ticking than those carrying a dark-coloured gene such as black.

The pale golden I suspect is a golden carrying cream, which lessens the ticking so you therefore get a much paler hamster without ticking.

This of course is my opinion and I'm sure people will disagree with me. I think the reason that the dark standard has been maintained and the others scrapped is because these dark goldens are more striking and so people perpetuated their breeding to the exclusion of the others.

[Spuds Mum]

Well as someone with a Carrington pure golden girl, I have to say I do love the 'normal' or pure golden colour. I'm no expert (as Carrington will agree I'm sure :wink: ) but I do sometimes wonder why we have a standard that actually encourges us to 'put colour in' rather than having a straight colour. I do like the dark goldens too, but the 'swarthiness' of these can detract from the beautiful chestnut gold that is a firm favourite with me.
Just my own personal view of course, but I would like to see 'real' pure goldens being the norm :D

[Bunsey]

I'm no expert on goldens either, but I do think that it's wrong for a golden to have to carry something to meet the standard (e.g. carrying black or carrying Wh to make white flashes etc.). The standard of a hamster should surely be the hamster in it's pure state, carrying nothing.

[PKK]

The pale golden I suspect is a golden carrying cream, which lessens the ticking so you therefore get a much paler hamster without ticking.

The lighter golden is best for breeding Light Grays since you want a lighter color. I maintain that the Light gray standard should be based on breeding with a standard golden not a substandard light golden. However 'better' minds decided differently.

[Matty Day]

just out of interset what would happen if this got raised at all 3 club's AGMs. I think the current standard should be either scrapped and pure golden made the standard or all three be restored

[Holly]

In my opinion the medium/normal standard that was scrapped is probably the correct one for a pure golden - they tend to have less ticking than those carrying a dark-coloured gene such as black.


That is so intersting, I've got some older books (those from the sixties are the earliest with colour piccies in) and I wondered why the Goldens I see today, though VERY striking, don't look anything like the original Goldens. Those "wild type" Goldens are lovely and, to be very honest, much more my cup of tea than the heavily ticked ones.

I think the reason that the dark standard has been maintained and the others scrapped is because these dark goldens are more striking and so people perpetuated their breeding to the exclusion of the others.

That happens a lot in all animals, I think - there are always "fashionable" (usually the most striking) colours and other colours must suffer in numbers as a result, which is shame.

Surely preserving the original "wild-type" is important - do you have any piccies of those you bred? :)

[Carrington]

There are some pics on my website I think - www.carringtonhamstercrew.co.uk (http://www.carringtonhamstercrew.co.uk) - that site will direct you to my new one (Scorpio Syrians) which is my new prefix but you can still access the old site.

I think on the new site Bella is the only pure golden featured. She is currently the very proud Mum of a pretty large litter that are a week old and doing well (fingers crossed). I mated her to Mario (black) :oops: sorry you guys. Any that haven't already been sold will be at Lymm show if anyone is in the market for a dark golden.

Oh actually Zeus is also a pure golden but I think most of the others on there carry either black or dark grey.

My top show guy at the moment (won his class in last 2 shows and BOS last time out) is Amadeus. He carries black and cinnamon and is currently out and about on stud duty!

[Spuds Mum]

Our Vala is pure too Holly, (on our site) - she actually does very well at shows for a pure golden 'oldie' although you do find that the ones carrying black or dark grey always pip her at the post. :D

[Gust0o]

She did very well indeed, at Brockholes.

Any that haven't already been sold will be at Lymm show if anyone is in the market for a dark golden.

If they're anything like your previous dark goldens, that I've seen - Topaz and Mojito - then they could be something indeed!

I'll have to resist the temptation!

[souffle]

I think that stretching the Golden standard to encompass a huge range of shades of colour is not ideal. In my opinion a hamster bred genetically to be a pure golden should be the standard. To me it is clear which animals carry black and grey or cream when you look at them. The black carriers always do better in colour points as they are so striking. Their success means that more and more hamsters are bred carrying black or grey so we lose the 'purity' of true golden and we also lose the normal and light goldens. I would like to see the 3 colour standards being brought back. Even if there was only one Golden class all goldens entered in this class could be judged against the correct standard for their own colour and this would seem to me to be a fairer system.

[Matty Day]

I think that stretching the Golden standard to encompass a huge range of shades of colour is not ideal. In my opinion a hamster bred genetically to be a pure golden should be the standard. To me it is clear which animals carry black and grey or cream when you look at them. The black carriers always do better in colour points as they are so striking. Their success means that more and more hamsters are bred carrying black or grey so we lose the 'purity' of true golden and we also lose the normal and light goldens. I would like to see the 3 colour standards being brought back. Even if there was only one Golden class all goldens entered in this class could be judged against the correct standard for their own colour and this would seem to me to be a fairer system.

i agree with you so im going to raise this and try and get some support at the southern agm. if thats the right way to do it?

if so it would be helpful if it was raised at the midland and northern agm to :wink:

and it woul be a fair compramise

[Gust0o]

I think it would be worthwhile to kick-start the debate Matty, though I'd be hesitant to suggest changes without a more thorough investigation.

The key questions for me, and ones not answered here, is why were the three colour standards dropped in the first instance? And do those conditions still apply?

Still, I think it would be very worthwhile to get onto the agenda - I'd be very interested in hearing more.

[Bunsey]

yes i'd be interested in having it raised too, and getting people's opinions on it.

[souffle]

Not sure but I think the questions need to be raised with the Standard's committee. Each club should have a standards rep who can discuss any issues with the committee.

[Matty Day]

well im going to ask pete at g :x atcombe tomorrow

[Matty Day]

we know why aprently it was because the majority of goldens carreid other colours and this lead to the judges complaining about the two dropped standards being redundant.