Rats & Ferrets (& Chameleons!)

[Erin Loves Dwarf Hamsters]

I have always wanted to own a pair of ferrets but more recently I have been looking into getting a pair or group of rats as well, I asked Dan about it and he said I can have both when we get a bigger place as well as the robo breeding! (Yay!)

So since I am super bored right now I though I would ask what people's experiences have been with Rats or Ferrets (or both) and all the basic things

ie; What would you say would be good sized cages?
Do they have the same territorial issues as some hams do?
I know rats need to live in pairs or groups, is it the same with ferrets as I have seen some alone but always thought they had to live in pairs?
Do ferrets actually need to be walked or is it one of those stupid gimmicky things encouraged by pet shops to make you buy leads and coats?
How long do either live on average?

basically anything you know and any cute photos you have would be great :)
It'll be at least 18 months before I seriously look into getting either but it will be nice to learn a bit more now.

Oh also, if anyone owns Chameleons could I have some info/photos on them too as Dan really wants one :p

[kyrilliondaemon]

My cousin has/had a chameleon... I only met it briefly but it seemed really cute if that helps lol
Liked its bugs and its feet felt strange when it was climbing on you. Not bad, just seemed strange to me because I wasn't used to it.

Not going to be any help on rats/ferrets but thought I'd mention the chameleon :)

[Noa]

This is what I can tell you off the top of my head :)
Rats:
- you can use a cage calculator for figuring out how many rats a specific combination of dimensions will hold (I use this:[link] (http://www.rattycorner.com/odds/calc.shtml))
- you also have to make sure the bar spacing on the cage is small eough that they can't escape or fit their head through
- territorial wise, it depends on the rat (most rats aren't, but they will establish a pecking order)
- they live on average of 2-3 years
- you should feed them a high quality block or kibble, like Harlan Teklad or Oxbow
- they are prone to cancer and respiratory infections so you need to have a fairly large vet fund reserved for them (you should also spay/neuter to decrease the chance of reproductive organ related cancer)
- they will need to be let out of their cage daily (I let mine out for 2-3 hours a day)
- they can be litter trained poop wise, but not with peeing
- you might also want to buy hammocks, but if you're ok at sewing (or using a sewing machine) then you could just make your own (same goes for cage liners)

Some pictures of my rats:
http://i917.photobucket.com/albums/ad18/Haro14/Mobile%20Uploads/2012-04-10141406-1.jpg http://i917.photobucket.com/albums/ad18/Haro14/Mobile%20Uploads/2012-04-04184809-1.jpg http://i917.photobucket.com/albums/ad18/Haro14/Mobile%20Uploads/2012-04-04184846-1.jpg http://i917.photobucket.com/albums/ad18/Haro14/Mobile%20Uploads/2012-04-04184822-1.jpg http://i917.photobucket.com/albums/ad18/Haro14/Mobile%20Uploads/2012-04-10141514-1.jpg http://i917.photobucket.com/albums/ad18/Haro14/Mobile%20Uploads/2012-04-10141455-1.jpg http://i917.photobucket.com/albums/ad18/Haro14/Mobile%20Uploads/2012-03-15163239-1.jpg http://i917.photobucket.com/albums/ad18/Haro14/Mobile%20Uploads/Delilah3-1.jpg http://i917.photobucket.com/albums/ad18/Haro14/Mobile%20Uploads/Genesis3-1.jpg

[luvcats22]

i can cover the chameleons, i own a yemen (also known as veiled) cham. best info i can give you is to research research and research some more, they are difficult to keep and maintain. they can be feisty and when they chomp down they hurt lol.
the cages are hard to get right because they need massive ventilation but also need the heat and uv light. heres a pic of my set-up its a reptibreeze cage from terry thatcher, the frame is aluminium and covered in a fine metal mesh. oh and also a picture of murphy the cham lol
http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc280/luvcats22/021.jpg
http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc280/luvcats22/019.jpg
http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc280/luvcats22/007-16.jpg

[Erin Loves Dwarf Hamsters]

Hehe cuties!

Ryuu - Thanks for the info, robos seem to be quite prone to tumors so it rats being prone to cancer isn't something that is a massive concern to me as I'm used to having to look out for lumps.
I would assume that Breeder rats would have much lower risks though? I would never buy another pet shop animal, though I might rescue some instead.

The link for the cage calculator is one I have seen before but I am not sure I trust it as I put in the measurements for my Hamster heaven to see what the calculator was like and it said I could have 3 rats in there and yet it feels way too small for my small Syrian so I can't even see one rat living in it comfortably.

I love the idea of both making and buying hammock, that's why I like rats they seem to appreciate being spoiled more than hams do ;)

luvcats22 - Wow I didn't realise they were so hard to take care of, always thought they were relatively easy (in pet terms) are there any lizards you can suggest that would be easier to look after? The only reptile I have ever owned was a Tortoise years and years ago and he died at 7 months old. I will try and convince Dan into a different lizard as I know he isn't picky and I wouldn't want him being put off them if chameleons are really hard.

[luvcats22]

all reptiles can be tricky if you get the wrong info on taking care of them, leopard geckos are cool and fairly easy once you have the set-up right, and of course theres the good old bearded dragon, again fairly easy once set-up is correct. theres lots of conflicting info on care for reptiles, and i would reccommend joining a site like rfuk (reptile forums uk) for good reliable info.
leopard gecko- princess
http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc280/luvcats22/messing118.jpg
http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc280/luvcats22/messing120.jpg

beardie=levi
http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc280/luvcats22/006-14.jpg
http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc280/luvcats22/007-15.jpg
beardie still got some growing to do here, he was only a youngster but these are my fave pics of him. xx

[Amethyst_ice]

Sadly as mentioned resp issues are a huge common thing with rats and not one that breeder rats vs pet shop rats are much defferent HOWEVER a breeder ratty will have been handled from birth more and the lifetime after care you have access to is huge. Other issues though such as tumours, eye problems etc have been given better attention from breeders but be aware that even the best lines will prob get some resp issues (for comparrison, all my 5 currently come from "high awards" breeders and 4/5 have resp issues at under 6 months..its a lottery, one has a permanant head tilt also) mycoplasma is something you should look up on..its THE commonest resp issue. However most can be controlled by antbis etc and one of my older ones i don't treat unless he has a serious flare up.

diet wise...these is alot of debate (ratty world is similar to dog world..lots of mixed opnions and hard to pick..go with what suits YOU and not what people say, there will always be someone disagreeing, its very political, as are the clubs and shows from my own and others i talk to opinions). I feed science selective as it is vegetarian. Too much protein can cause skin issues and many mixes have poor quality meat products in which when feeding treats etc can be harder to monitor protein. I found with mixes my lot were leaving too much and i couldnt afford the wastage so for ME a straight diet is more economical and ensures they get all needed. I then give fruits and veggies 2/3 times a week and a few scraps now and again :) the shunamite diet is one you will come across in your research.

cage wise id say look at bird cages tbh.i recently got the hamberley from efc, its a good alternative size wise to the popular abode cages but i have had to modify it and its huge. The critter cages i like and the jenny cages are good, depends on your needs again and how many you are getting. as a rule i take 2/3 rats away from what they say is recommended so if it says 8 id say 5. Also ratties vary in size..my biggest lads are 700g (they were bred for size) and my others 400g (bred for ear size). Girls are generally smaller and livlier.

look at others set ups Fancy Rats • Index page (http://www.fancyratsforum.co.uk/index.php)

this is a good starter for reading up

The Dapper Rat (http://www.dapper.com.au/)

any questions feel free to pm, i have had an extensive journey with rats as my first two were abused rescues...major deep end!

oh and heres the crew for smooshyness

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/s720x720/292630_10100157326405655_223407998_16899578_398939 110_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/s720x720/576084_10100160877319595_223407998_16930464_200350 1287_n.jpg

[p_anda]

I thought I'd add something on the cage front:)

I was recommended this cage for rats AND ferrets:

Xtrail Rodent Cage with Free Delivery (http://www.theonlinepetstore.co.uk/product/Xtrail-Rodent-Cage-659)

It's called a Liberta Explorer/Xtrail, and it's an all metal cage with wheels. Also the bar spacing is tiny, so def no escapes.

I imagine it's suitable for either 1/2 ferrets or a few rats [?]

[sully]

Lovely pictures.

[Amethyst_ice]

My friend has split the explorer into two sections, 8 boys below, 8 girls above, its huge.

Care and Ethics - Serenity Rats (http://serenityrats.webs.com/careandethics.htm)