Humble Pie.... [Archive] - Hamster Central

Holly

02-06-2008, 10:09 AM

:oops:

Um..before I start this thread I just need to perhaps say a few words. I have been very vociferous in my condemnation of the mass breeding of hamsters for petshops, especially the cramped and poor conditions the breeder females are kept in and the stressful way babies are transported. I'm also not overly keen on the way most petshops sell hamsters and the advice they give to the public. I have, in the past, vowed never to buy a hamster (or any animal) from a petshop again - and those are sentiments I agree with still - I am against the selling of hamsters in petshops and wish it would stop.

Ahem....you can probably guess what's coming :oops:

If anyone thinks I'm a bit of a hypocrite, they are probably right. The shop in question is P@H, a shop I've criticised heavily in the past - I went there just to get a couple more log bridges which are on special offer and had a quick look in the adoption centre. There weren't any hamsters there but there were several lively and very sweet looking baby Syrians running round in the small animals section. Two of them caught my eye in particular - one was a black/tortoishell banded SH (unusual in a petshop, I think) and the other was.....well, a beautiful (very young, I think) LH girl with a lovely squashy show type face and thick shiny coat. I was a bit shocked to see just how pretty she was - all hamsters are special but she really jumped out at me.

The assistant was nearby and I asked how old she was and how tame - she said quite tame actually and (fatally) I asked to see her more closely. Well she hopped onto the assistants hand without a care in the world and I was lost. After holding her (and being grilled by the assisstant - what cage did I have, did I know about feeding, I wasn't planning to breed her was I etc - quite impressive really) I brought her home.

Anyway ..... meet Aero:

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o209/Holly_Day/IMG_6538.jpg

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o209/Holly_Day/IMG_6537.jpg

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o209/Holly_Day/IMG_6521.jpg

I think she's a Dove LH (which tallies with her being sold with a tortoishell if they are from the same litter, I think) and I think she's younger than the 7-8 weeks they said she is - she's got that baby-faced look. I suppose she could be a young Mink (as Dove and Mink are very simillar as youngsters) but I don't think she is as she's very different to Toby, our LH Mink - he's much more browny orange and she's greyer with brighter red eyes (like Jane's Charlie).

I've left her to settle in - though she doesn't seem too fazed by being brought here and is already, after some initial suspicion, a wodent wheel addict - and I'll take more pics when she's settled. Would people agree she's a Dove? If she continues to be as laid back as she seems so far I may take her to Highworth or Alcester to show her to the experts.

Anyway I hope no one thinks too badly of me for abandoning my principles - she's beautiful and I intend to give her a lovely home with a slightly mad hamster fanatic with no life who spend 3 hours every night looking after hamsters :wink: :oops:

sthomas048

02-06-2008, 10:41 AM

Im definately no expert, but she is something special Holly. A lovely face and fur. :) All anyone can do is inspect the conditions of caging in the pet shop and take time looking at the Hams you are interested in. The fact the assistant was asking you lots of questions is good isnt it. I would probably do the same if i was confronted with a Ham as pretty as little Aero !

Basia

02-06-2008, 10:42 AM

Aw Julie, she is just so gorgeous. Don't feel bad, resolutions are made to be broken. :D
Aero suits her so well. :wink:

Holly

02-06-2008, 10:58 AM

Thanks you two, makes me feel a little better about being such a hypocrite! :oops:

I'm keeping her away from my other hamsters for now - just in case. The assistant did ask me if I know about wet tail and advised me to bring her back if she gets ill at all (I won't). I asked if they've had wet tail at that branch recently and she told me they haven't - not for several months.

I had a good look at the other 3 babies in the cage - the Tortoishell plus two lovely Black-eyed Whites (I wish we could have had them all and am just praying they all get good homes, bless them :( ) and they all looked healthy and lively. One thing I didn't think to check was the sex of the other three :? ...the Tortoishell is obviously female, just hope the BEW's were as well. I've never bought a female petshop hamster before so it didn't cross my mind - duh :oops:

suga

02-06-2008, 11:10 AM

What a beauty. I understand what you say about pet shops, although have to say that Conker came from a pet shop and lived a long life and was in fab condition. Obviously purchasing that way you don't know much about the life they had or the parents have but I think its okay.

I love the colour of the little one - they are adorable and melt your heart at that age eh? I am surprised you were able to resist bringing them all home....

congratulations :D

Matty Day

02-06-2008, 11:18 AM

i just love the grey colour she is one pretty girl.

i know how you feel iw ent into strange pet shop the other day and nearly came out with a pair of male winter whites thank god i had my dad with me as a voice or reason!

Spuds Mum

02-06-2008, 11:28 AM

Oh Julie Julie Julie, what are we going to do with you? :wink:
Aero is totally divine. She could be either mink or dove, looking at my mink babies, what I did notice is that even when young and very dove like I could see lighter spectacles of 'orange' around there eyes. (not that obvious cause Ive only just noticed when Ive gone to compare Aero to Chip etc.) so she could be either, but from your photos I cant see any lighter eye bits. you can see what I mean from the BB breeding diary
http://www.madabouthamsters.com/breeding_diary/past/butterbean_15-07-07/butterbean.html

It confused me saying about the tortoiseshell though - apart from the black in common Im not sure that it would indicate they may be from the same litter - but to be honest I haven't fully worked it out - dove being aapp? and a black tortoiseshell being aaTo. My little brain is not up to it tonight!

She really is a little beauty though - and has found a fantastic home with you. It is funny though that someone we both know who isnt local to you was mentioning seeing some black hams in P@H today and being sorely tempted - it looks like they have had a run on them..

*Arti takes away Teresa's car keys before she drives to her local P@H :x

Catja

02-06-2008, 11:28 AM

How could you have resisted her anyway.

Both Kretchmer & Algy were P@H. I can't be got at for Kretchmer because she was my first - but there was absolutely no excuse for Algy :D OH reckons they sold me a mouse in disguise.

I always go into P@H promising myself I will not look in the hamster tanks and every time I can't resist a quick peak.

Aero is particularly lovely Holly, what a gorgeous colour.

I'm pretty sure in my P@H they keep the sexes seperately, my girl came from there and she was fine :D

Mollz

02-06-2008, 11:57 AM

You naughty girl Holly - but I couldn't have resisted either :wink:
She is very beautful and I may have to come an ham-nap her!

souffle

02-06-2008, 12:24 PM

I am saying nothing Holly :lol:

souffle

02-06-2008, 12:26 PM

OK I'm saying something :wink: She is very sweet and my first thoughts were mink. She may be dove but I think she will go minky. We shall see as she grows. Welcome to the forum Aero!

Catja

02-06-2008, 12:48 PM

Ooh I was thinking mink :D

Holly - on a separate issue - those chews in the background of one of the shots of the gorgeous Aero (very jealous now :wink: ) where did you get them from?

pophammy

02-06-2008, 01:11 PM

Not another ham Holly! :lol: :wink:

She is gorgeous and has such a sweet little face! I can see why it was so hard to resist!

newtohamsters

02-06-2008, 01:30 PM

She is gorgeous.
:D

The thing is the pet industry is awful in many ways but sometimes its fate when you find a pet.

It probably won't help ( :oops: ) but before I knew any better I got my pets from Pets At Home, but now except for Willow who is from my local pet shop mine are all rescues, I figure so long as I "rescue" as many as I have had from a pet shop/chain store I am sort of ok! sort of....

to be honest I am just a sucker for a cute face. I would have found it difficult to leaver her behind..........

NTH

Holly

02-06-2008, 01:55 PM

Thanks guys, I do feel better now that so many of you understand why I just couldn't leave her behind!

I think it was fate that I saw her - I only stopped at P@H on my way to meeting a friend for coffee in Starbucks as I had 10 spare minutes - I try not to look at the hamsters usually when I'm there as they usually make me feel sad. Something just made me look today....

Once I'd got her (in that inadequate cardboard thing they give you) I had to race to Starbucks and ask my friend to get takeaway coffees and come straight back to my house! Luckily she loves hamsters and was happy to do it!

I know that mink is the most likely colour for her to be (as they are so much more common and easier to breed) and if she's a mink that's great, I love 'em! It's just that she's very different to our Mink boy, Toby, who was much more browny orange even as an eight week old. He's also got the pale eye rings and Aero's got no sign of them. And P@H do seem to be having a run of black/black related colours lately.....

Here are a few more piccies anyway - she's an absolute darling and came out quite keenly for quick cuddle tonight though we didn't keep her out for long as I don't want to stress her out.

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o209/Holly_Day/IMG_6548.jpg

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o209/Holly_Day/IMG_6544.jpg

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o209/Holly_Day/IMG_6546.jpg

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o209/Holly_Day/IMG_6549.jpg

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o209/Holly_Day/IMG_6550.jpg

Catja, I assume you mean the hanging skewer things? They come from Wilkinson's and we add other wooden chew blocks and sticks from our local petshop.

jayne

02-06-2008, 02:28 PM

Aw Holly, she is gorgeous! I can see how you couldnt resist that face :P
As for being a hypocrite, dont be silly. You have given Aero a wonderful home and even though i have the exact same opinion as you with regards to P@H, i still would have a temptation to buy a little one if they jumped out at me (not literally) :lol:
Look forward to seeing more photos of her when shes settled and i love the name!

Basia

02-06-2008, 02:31 PM

Oh she is photogenic. She looks really tame too, which is good news for a P@H hammie. I still can't pick Basil up now, he would hang off my hand by his teeth!
I have looked closely at the photos and I can't see any eye rings. She is a very beautiful girl and I'm sure she will live a long and happy life with you.
And yes it was me drooling over the blacks but I didn't buy one. Only because they were male, a female would have come straight home with me. :oops:

Spuds Mum

02-06-2008, 02:48 PM

oh Aero (swoon) adorable. She does look dove in that second pic - but could just be the flash - hey I have no idea apart from she is glorious :D but I studied all my breeding pics of the baby minks and they did have the eye rings, so maybe she is dove. Or maybe not.
Or maybe is...
we could be here sometime! lol

babyboos

02-06-2008, 05:36 PM

Aero does look Mink from the photographs
There must be quite a few tortishells in the big breeding centre where P@H get their hamsters from as they quite often have black, torts and dove hamsters on sale. They will like to use them for breeding due to the high colour variability in the youngsters produced usually.
Young Mink is very different from old Mink and long haired to shorthaired is also quite distinct... Could this account for any of the differences you perceive?

Holly

02-07-2008, 12:18 AM

Oh she is photogenic. She looks really tame too, which is good news for a P@H hammie. I still can't pick Basil up now, he would hang off my hand by his teeth!

Ha! Oh bless him, he's quite a character, isn't he?
I must admit that's what I was expecting when the assistant got Aero out for me to look at!!!

Young Mink is very different from old Mink and long haired to shorthaired is also quite distinct... Could this account for any of the differences you perceive?

Well I think Aero is a LH as well - she's very fluffy all over and has these long tufts growing out of her rear end! However she certainly doesn't have the coat length of Toby so I guess that could account for the differences. It's just that she looks almost [i]purple[/] when you look at her, like a greyish purple - and Rolo never looked like that. She als has no sign of eye rings. Having said all that we got Rolo at 8 weeks and I think Aero is 6 weeks-ish, she's still a real baby face. I know baby Minks look different to older ones.

Here's Tobes at 8 weeks:

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o209/Holly_Day/IMG_6166.jpg

And here's Aero:

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o209/Holly_Day/IMG_6548.jpg

Simillar there's no doubt - and I'm sure the flash has distorted both pictures - but Aero doesn't have even a hint of brown to her coat and she doesn't have any eye rings. Maybe those come with age? (What age did your baby Minks get theri eye rings, Teresa?).

Oh well I guess time will tell - I'm sure her colour will become obvious!!!!!! Either way thanks for the compliments, I still can't believe I went to P@H for log bridges and came out with Aero :shock: ...but I'm so glad I did!

suga

02-07-2008, 01:26 AM

Holly - did I see a little bit of white under her chin? She sure is gorgeous I love her colour and your so lucky that she wants a snuggle so quickly...... :D

Scottish ham nap plan is in the making!

Holly

02-07-2008, 01:47 AM

She does have a white patch under her chin - most self colours do though, for the show bench, the less white the better. Funnily enough Toby has an almost identical patch.

I'm starting to think she's Mink now as well!

Bunsey

02-07-2008, 06:04 AM

i thought mink at first, but there are a couple of photos where she looks dove. it may depend on the light. an unusual colour to see in a pet shop. perhaps they aren't from the usual breeder, hence them also being tame.

i don't blame you at all - it is hard to resist those little faces begging to be loved. i'm like that with rescues. every time i say i'm going to breed a litter of show hams i go and get another rescue or two and i have to abandon my plans......
did i introduce jake and hannah? :oops:

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a371/ayms2/decemberhams110.jpg

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a371/ayms2/decemberhams107.jpg

souffle

02-07-2008, 07:05 AM

Awww Bunsey, YOU DID NOT, you naughty person you :D Please give them their own intros right away. They look adorable :D :D

Spuds Mum

02-07-2008, 12:44 PM

(What age did your baby Minks get theri eye rings, Teresa?).

Well they certainly had them early, you could see them as soon as they opened their eyes really!

did i introduce jake and hannah? Embarassed

Bunsey - you dark horse! Introduce them at once properly!! I want to hear all about them! :x :x

Holly

02-08-2008, 12:58 AM

Bunsey! They look lovely 8)

Well they certainly had them early, you could see them as soon as they opened their eyes really!

I'm less convinced then - did they look almost purple? I know she's not a lilac as she has no cheek flashes etc (and the chances of lilac turning up in P@H is as likely as a hamster colony living on the moon :P ) but she really does have this purple look to her. I guess she could just be a poor example of Mink, but she's very pretty with it!

One thing for sure she's tame - Will got her out himself last night (as well as all the other hams, bless him) because I'm lurgied again (why does that always happen when we've babies to tame? :roll: )...and she walked round the house with him. She's a total wheel addict already :?

suga

02-08-2008, 02:25 AM

Wow that's fab that Areo is so tame and happy out and about already..... she is so pretty :D

Mollz

02-08-2008, 04:46 AM

Holly

02-08-2008, 05:59 AM

It's great that she's so tame already - especially coming from a pet shop!
As for the mink thing, my Gizmo (16 weeks old) is around the same colour as she is and his eye rings aren't that noticable. However he is roan and longhair - so that will make a difference. I can post a picture for comparison if needed.

That would be brilliant, Mollz :)

I'm also wondering if Jane has a baby picture of Charlieeeee she could post for comparison? :wink:

Mollz

02-08-2008, 07:35 AM

Ok heres a few pictures of Gizmo. He must have been around 11 weeks in this first one: http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i114/Mollz93/January08100.jpg

Here he is a bit older:
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i114/Mollz93/January08099.jpg
You can see his eye rings a bit more clearly, however they are harder to see in real life than on the pictures.
I really couldn't say either way on Aero, but it may become more apparent as she gets older!

Holly

02-08-2008, 09:38 AM

Hmmmm....Aero looks more like Gizmo that she does Toby (barring the Roaning of course), but he still looks a lot browner than her. Here's a few more taken this afternoon:

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o209/Holly_Day/IMG_6554.jpg

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o209/Holly_Day/IMG_6553.jpg

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o209/Holly_Day/IMG_6551.jpg

Spuds Mum

02-08-2008, 11:34 AM

she looks greyer I agree in those photos Holly. Can't wait to see her in the flesh! :D

Catja

02-08-2008, 11:50 AM

What cage is she in Holly?

I really like the building block chews, I've never seen them before, were they from a local shop to you?

Mollz

02-08-2008, 12:04 PM

She does look quite grey compared to him, and I belieeve she looks like Jane's Charlie who is a dove (colour, not bird lol), isn't he?

Catja

02-08-2008, 01:05 PM

Well, Holly I don't know whether she is Dove or Mink but she is GORGEOUS and I really love her colour. :lol:

Holly

02-08-2008, 02:29 PM

Thanks guys! I've still no idea what colour she is, one minute I think Mink, then I look again and think Dove :?

I think the last pictures show her coat better and how fluffy it is - I'm sure she's LH though how LH she's going to be I don't know! She's very laid back so I might bring her to Highworth or Alcester and see what the experts think she is in the flesh.

What cage is she in Holly?

She's in a Gabber Rex, Catja - they are currently my favourite cages for my (demon bar chewing) girls and when I move Kitty into hers this weekend all my girls will be in them. I have a lot more luck with boys in wire cages!

I really like the building block chews, I've never seen them before, were they from a local shop to you?

They are from our local petshop, yes - I can't remember what make they are, I'll look next time I'm in.

Spuds Mum

02-08-2008, 02:36 PM

She is so definitely long haired and going to have a lovely coat Julie - I'll stake a little golden pup carrying dark grey (and possibly cinnamon) on it! :wink: yes - I saw your other post lol.
Her coat looks just like Princesses at that age, also Sabine's. It does look different to Amelie and Molly, but I think thats because they are satins and don't look so fluffy!

Holly

02-08-2008, 02:43 PM

How old do you think she is, Teresa? I was told 7-8 weeks but the assistant didn't really know and I got the impression she was using a standard answer. To me she looks younger as she still has that baby-baby face.

(And I cannot and MUST NOT even think about a Golden-pup-possibly-carrying-Cinnamon, however much I'd like to :oops: ).

Spuds Mum

02-08-2008, 02:51 PM

I would have guessed at about 6 weeks, but to be honest it would be a guess, just based on the fact that P@H my local branch were telling me that they get deliveries from 5 weeks old and that they aim to have a weekly turnaround of 'stock', so assuming that she would have been snapped up quite quickly (and she would have been wouldn't she - she hadn't been there a couple of weeks) I would guess at 6.
I would consider that breeding farms would not keep the hams any longer than necessary (time being money after all) and what P@H said made sense (in a business way). I think that it must be a common age for P@H hamsters to be re-homed.

Anyway - I'm waffling - I think 6 *shouts of
lower and higher like Play your cards right :x

Oh and as for the pup - I will not tempt you, promise, if you dont tempt me with your selfs. We will maybe swap future generations though!

Holly

02-09-2008, 01:09 AM

Six weeks seems more like it to me as well. I haven't seen a huge number of baby hamsters in my time but those that I have seen have lost that real little baby face by the time they get to 8 weeks and Aero still has it.

She'll need a birthday like all our other hams - I think I'm going to make her 6 and half weeks and give her a Christmas Day birthday :wink:

PS I know we'll be swapping future generations, just look at our hamsters so far - they are so intertwined it would make a good soap opera :P

DonnaB

02-09-2008, 11:23 AM

I'll try keep my lips sealed.... but after this weeks events and talks that have gone on regarding their half baked adoption scheme/huge marketing ploy, P@H isnt my favourite place. Myself and many others (rabbit people) wont ever step foot in their shops again (maybe for the odd snoop :wink:)..... but I'm not allowed to say anymore!

but..... she's absolutely beautiful Julie, and dont feel too bad, I know shes far better off with you. :D

Basia

02-09-2008, 12:09 PM

Well I went in today for some Carefresh for poor Berry who has developed an allergy to wood-based bedding and I had a quick look at the hamsters like I always do and saw a LH satin cream girl who took my eye. I knew I was in trouble when one of the assistants asked if I needed any help.... I heard myself saying 'can I just have a look at that one...' The girl wouldn't pick her up because she said they all bite and she also insisted they were males because they had only had males in this week. I pointed to the nipples clearly showing on a small golden and told her that male hamsters don't have nipples so if they are all males, that one will be pregnant by now. The assistant gave the cream a push to let me have a look and she went onto her back and squealed. I was then told that the black in there had been bought back 3 times for biting and jumping. I stroked the cream very gently until she calmed down, then showed the assistant how to pick up a hamster without getting bitten. I also showed her that creamy is indeed a female. Needless to say creamy went into a box and came home with me, she is now called Peaches, which is exactly what colour she is. I will introduce her properly with some photos when she has had a chance to settle in. At the moment she is living in the lounge away from my hamsters, just in case, but she looks healthy enough to me. I think she is Aero's p@H twin and I will put her birthday as Christmas day too. :wink:

Mollz

02-09-2008, 12:12 PM

Uh-oh Basia, not another hammy :wink: She sounds lovely and is lucky to have gone home with you.
I better not go in to p@h, as there seems to be a series of cute hamsters appearing there and I may come home with something unexpected :?

Spuds Mum

02-09-2008, 12:21 PM

Oh Gill! A baby Peaches - she sounds lovely. I went into my P@H today and there was a tortie banded with really nice markings. She was under a wooden bridge thank goodness because if she had been out so I could get a full look at her who knows what may have happened! But I was very good and resisted, as I already have hamsters on the way (hopefully from Vala) and another possibly in the pipeline! :x
I'm also thinking about breeding Butterbean and Dubaku soon, so common sense (and Arti staring hard at me! :? ) won the day.

Peaches needs to be fully introduced as soon as you get chance! :x

souffle

02-09-2008, 12:30 PM

There is no way, with 4 empty cages I am going anywhere near pets at home :roll: Welcome to Peaches and looking forward to meeting her :lol:

Holly

02-09-2008, 02:37 PM

Oh how lovely, Basia - welcome Peaches and I look forward to seeing some piccies when she's settled in :) ...I know you've wanted a LH Satin Cream for a while.

I think she is Aero's p@H twin and I will put her birthday as Christmas day too. :wink:

Lovely idea, they can celebrate together 8)

Spud's Mum, how interesting they had a Tortoishshell banded in your P@H as well. Where are they all coming from? I suppose it must be like babyboos says - that the big breeders (boo hiss :( ) like the colour cominations they get from Black and related colours.

I've taken a picture of Toby and Aero tonight - in the same light so I can't blame the flash for any differences (Tobes was just making a break for Aero which is why I'm grabbing him in such an undignified way :oops: ):

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o209/Holly_Day/IMG_6557.jpg

I'm now fairly convinced she's not a Mink!

I've looked at the roots on Toby's hairs - they are Cream (very definitely) whereas Aero's hairs are all one colour - greyish-purple - all the way to the roots and her pink skin! Does that mean anything?

DonnaB

02-09-2008, 04:05 PM

She looks tiny next to Toby!..... gorgeous colour, almost lilac. :D

Basia

02-09-2008, 04:14 PM

I don't know anything about minks and doves Holly but she looks different to Toby and they both look gorgeous. Toby is huge now - or Aero is little. :lol:

Spuds Mum

02-09-2008, 05:03 PM

I don't know anything about minks and doves Holly but she looks different to Toby and they both look gorgeous. Toby is huge now - or Aero is little. :lol:

I think it is a bit of both Gill! I think they are both beauties!

Holly

02-10-2008, 02:34 AM

Toby is a whopping 184g (he's been over 190g but sadly has discovered wheel running to excess :? ) so he is pretty big - but you are right Aero is a tiddler, though I don't know for sure how old she is. I'll weigh her in the next couple of days, she's going to be small!

I've been reading some colour standards and the description for Dove is:

"Dove grey topcoat which carries down to the roots. The Dove is darker than the Mink and Blue Mink and lacks the light eye circles of both and the orangeness of the Mink. Dove has garnet eyes and flesh coloured ears with a brownish grey tint"

Mink: "Rich orange-brown colour with red eyes and flesh coloured ears" (it doesn't mention a cream undercoat but Tobes has got one and I know Sables have them so I think Minks should too).

I'm going to stop going on about her colour now :oops: ...either way she's very pretty and lovely to handle and we love her already. If she ever becomes showable Doves and Minks are both Non-Standard anyway so she'd be in the same class either way and they aren't judged on colour at all. I'll let you all know what the Highworth experts think she is but other than that, I'll shut up now!

Bunsey

02-10-2008, 02:43 AM

hmmm... i don't think she's a mink then. i can understand the curiosity, when i had Holly i spent months obsessing over her colour and i still don't really know! Can't wait to hear what she's diagnosed as at the show! :lol:

i found it really hard to resist a pet shop hamster yesterday! she was a sable banded, really fat fluffy pompom. It was in a shop where they buy from a breeder so they were all so big and beautiful! :oops:

I_am_plankton

02-10-2008, 03:54 AM

Oh my god how did I miss this thread?! She is beautiful Julie! She is definately a dove, lilac is lighter than that :)

Congratulations!

Mollz

02-10-2008, 07:12 AM

After seeing your latest photos Julie, I'd deffinately be more inclined to say Dove rather than mink. She's lovely whatever colour she is!
Can't wait to see her and your others in the flesh at Highworth.

Spuds Mum

02-10-2008, 10:25 AM

"Dove grey topcoat which carries down to the roots. The Dove is darker than the Mink and Blue Mink and lacks the light eye circles of both and the orangeness of the Mink. Dove has garnet eyes and flesh coloured ears with a brownish grey tint"

where did that description come from Julie? I haven't come across that one that I am aware of.
I'm hoping dove, and I had a feeling right from the start about the eye-rings etc. that your quote seems to bear out (and lack of base colour!).

Holly

02-10-2008, 11:02 AM

It's from the old BHA standards which are no longer on-line - they are what Pete Logsdail is revamping for the NHC.

Catja

02-10-2008, 11:03 AM

Thats it, I can't be trusted anywhere near pets@home now! Was it our local Pets@Home Gill?

Stupid question but is it very clear to the uninitiated when the hamster is a satin? Are they very silky?

suga

02-10-2008, 11:10 AM

I have seen one once in a shop and the hamster looked very glossy, shiny almost. It was very pretty....

Basia

02-10-2008, 11:13 AM

Thats it, I can't be trusted anywhere near pets@home now! Was it our local Pets@Home Gill?

Stupid question but is it very clear to the uninitiated when the hamster is a satin? Are they very silky?

Yes the one in Hereford. They have had some really nice Syrians in there the last few weeks. I saw some nice typey blacks and a lovely, massive, LH golden girl and then I saw Peaches yesterday. They also have some little, mousey ones like my Sid and I could very easily buy them too. There was a sweet little golden in Peaches pen who came to me and was so friendly....
I have a theory, which is just my own opinion, that the people who supply P@H may import stock from the continent from time to time. They have Huskey Robos in there at the moment and I know they have been difficult to get hold of.
If you see a satin alongside a normal hamster you will see a marked difference, even if you didn't know there was such a thing as satin, they have a sheen and very shiny coat. It is much softer to touch too.

Holly

02-10-2008, 02:19 PM

I have just weighed Aero and she's a teeny-tiny 97g :shock:

Spuds Mum

02-10-2008, 02:32 PM

ahhh tiny - but with your love and care she will grow and grow I am sure. And to make you feel better, Rosie's yellow boy is nearly 8 months now and is 120g - he has lost some since getting his wodent wheel. She is not that far off him :x

PS gill - the ones in my P@H yesterday other than the tortie who I couldn't see properly all had really pointy faces, and general bad type. They were mainly golden/golden bandeds. Even Arti spotted it at once and said about it!
(he usually says he can't tell the difference!)

Holly

02-10-2008, 02:53 PM

ahhh tiny - but with your love and care she will grow and grow I am sure. And to make you feel better, Rosie's yellow boy is nearly 8 months now and is 120g - he has lost some since getting his wodent wheel. She is not that far off him :x

Actually Treacle and Custard are both less than 120g now as well, you've reminded me. I've been looking for the piece of paper I wrote the Carapaws weight on when they were babies but I can't find it. The only one I can find is Molly at 7 weeks was 112g - not such a huge difference I guess when I think Aero's younger than that!

My one slight concern is that I'm not sure how much she's eating - her food bowl looks virtually untouched today though she's eaten the piece of broccoli I gave her last night and she definitely ate some porridge the night before (tonight's treat is pasta). She's active enough (currently running round in her ball) and her poops are normal, no sign of any diarrhoea so i guess she's ok. I think I'll get some Stage Two baby food tomorrow - mine loved it at this age.

Mollz

02-10-2008, 02:58 PM

The only one I can find is Molly at 7 weeks was 112g - not such a huge difference I guess when I think Aero's younger than that!
Oh my goodness, Buttons is only 110g at 15 weeks and even Gizmo from BVH is only 120g at 16 weeks. They are both wheel addicts though ...

Holly

02-10-2008, 03:03 PM

That makes me feel better Mollz - I think Aero's probably pretty normal (and she's now busy stuffing in pasta!).

I wouldn't worry about the weights of yours, they are all different and wheel running a lot makes a big difference when they are growing. You could always try the porridge/pasta/rice/Lactol supplements the breeders seem to use if you want to bulk them up a bit. I do worry I'm fattening mine up too much though - Mars looks a bit chubby to be honest so I'll have to watch him.

Basia

02-10-2008, 03:21 PM

Aero could be quite young though and I don't think they have the best of starts compared to how we raised our babies Holly. I'm sure she will make up weight now she is being fed by you.
Peaches is 116g. I have just looked back to see that Chunky was 100g at just under 9 weeks and Berry 125g at 10 weeks. Even if Peaches is 8 weeks old she is not a bad weight considering they are 'breeder' hams and she is a P@H. Sid only weighed 90g at 5 months!
She's a scardy-hammie though. Aero is much tamer. We have just had our first taming session and all fingers are intact by my t-shirt had been teethed! She wants to like me, she keeps coming up to me and then runs away. :D

Holly

02-10-2008, 03:41 PM

She's a scardy-hammie though. Aero is much tamer. We have just had our first taming session and all fingers are intact by my t-shirt had been teethed! She wants to like me, she keeps coming up to me and then runs away. :D

That sounds positive, I know she's going to be lovely and tame as well as lovely and beautiful :wink:

Holly

02-12-2008, 01:31 AM

AARRGGHH! I was awoken at 6am today by the grating sound of bar chewing - aarrgghh, I thought - I was sure I'd sorted that problem (with the log bridges)....but, lo and behold, it was AERO :shock:

She may be small but she can still stand on the Gabber shelf and chew like the best of them - looks like another trip to P@H for log bridges is in order (this time wearing a blindnfold :P ).

Basia

02-12-2008, 06:02 AM

She's made herself right at home! :P
I went in P@H yesterday and I couldn't resist a look at the hamsters and they hardly had any left at all (thank goodness).
I can pick Peaches up now and stroke her and she comes to see me everytime I go near her cage. She runs away when I lift the lid off but can't resist coming out again. I don't think it is going to take long to tame her.

suga

02-12-2008, 10:57 AM

Areo sounds like a tinker :-)

Holly

02-12-2008, 12:00 PM

Oh she is that, Suga, definitely :wink:

Unfortunately I didn't manage to get any log bridges today so I'll have to go tomorrow (we've been to a farm park where I had to give myself a stern talking to as they had some baby Rex rabbits for sale :oops: ). I need something makeshift for tonight - I don't mind a *bit* of chewing but I can't cope with that noise at 6 am and right next to the dividing wall of our semi as well - so I panicked about neighbours hearing it :?

Gill, it sounds like Peaches is taming beautifully already, good on you 8)

Spuds Mum

02-12-2008, 12:18 PM

Oh glad Peaches is taming well - you'll have her eating out of your hand (literally!) soon :x

You could always take Aero's shelf away Holly until you manage to get some log bridges. I know that you will get some as soon as you can so it would only be for a night or two!

Bronte also has a 'bridge chew defence' and has really started chewing the wood, which is great - however I obviously didnt attach it tightly enough so that it bangs against the bars and makes as much noise as her chewing! :roll: Bt at least she isn't damaging her teeth/nose! :D

souffle

02-12-2008, 12:20 PM

Maybe try the tiles Holly. Napoleon has stopped now and is a tile free zone currently. It took about two weeks of tiling to stop him.

Holly

02-12-2008, 12:25 PM

Maybe try the tiles Holly. Napoleon has stopped now and is a tile free zone currently. It took about two weeks of tiling to stop him.

Good idea - I just need to find the tiles, I'm not sure what I've done with them! I'm glad Napoleon has stopped chewing, that's excellent.

Bronte also has a 'bridge chew defence' and has really started chewing the wood, which is great - however I obviously didnt attach it tightly enough so that it bangs against the bars and makes as much noise as her chewing! Bt at least she isn't damaging her teeth/nose!

I'm so glad she's chewing it, that's great - Molly's the same and I keep telling myself it doesn't matter how many times I need to replace it at least she isn't chewing those bars! I find zip ties pulled reaalllly tight stop the bridges rattling about.

Holly

Holly

02-15-2008, 03:06 AM

Well Aero's been her for just over a week and she's very settled, it's like we've always had her. I'm not sure I've ever had a hamster so tame after such a short time - and from P@H, I don't get it :?

She seems bigger, it's weigh night tonight so I'll find out how much weight she's put on.

She has unfortunately developed an alarming bar habit - I've added a single row of log bridges to the roof and that deterred her for a couple of nights but she's now discovered climbing and monkey barring around the edges of the logs :roll:

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o209/Holly_Day/IMG_6560.jpg

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o209/Holly_Day/IMG_6561.jpg

AAAARRRRGGGGHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Basia

02-15-2008, 03:13 AM

Oh Julie, she is so sweet. She looks like a little bear cub and so happy too.
She has a very mischievious glint in her eye though - I think you will always know you've got her. :P

Gust0o

02-15-2008, 03:48 AM

I wouldn't worry too much about the monkey barring - just make sure she has padding below, and let her enjoy it!

I know a lot has been said about the state of hamster bones, and the opportunity for injuries - but I think the message is, remove any clear or unnecessary risks... but don't pad them in cotton wool.

She looks absolutely fantastic - and, if people will humour me in making a positive comment about P@H, their animals are often quite tame, owing to the massive amount of human contact they get.

We've got a very busy store, up here in York, and the animals are - almost without exception - incredibly tame, as per Biggie and Tupac.

She looks absolutely mint - I think Bob will getting jealous; me, sharing my affections with another Syrian! :lol:

Basia

02-15-2008, 03:57 AM

She looks absolutely fantastic - and, if people will humour me in making a positive comment about P@H, their animals are often quite tame, owing to the massive amount of human contact they get.

I think it probably varies from store to store. They are not handled before they arrive at the store and in our P@H the staff are all frightened of them because they have been bitten, therefore, the babies go to their new homes completely untame. If they are in a store where the staff handle them then they will obviously benefit from that.
I have 4 P@H hamsters. I was never able to tame the first one, he will bite anyone that touches him but I accept that is probably my fault because he was my first hamster for many, many years. The next 2 are lovely tame pets but not quite as easy to handle as my other hamsters, although I was still on a steep learning curve when they were babies. Peaches, my newest aquistion is doing really well and I am going to do my best to see if I can get her as tame as the babies I bred myself.

Gust0o

02-15-2008, 05:11 AM

Well, I can only comment about the York store - but they seem to have plenty of contact time, and the staff seem confident with the animals.

They talk to you before you purchase - make sure you know the care requirements, etc - and knock back any idiots.

Better than most, I would say!

Holly

02-15-2008, 05:54 AM

Thanks for the nice comments you two :)

Gus, I'm not desperately worried about the monkey-barring per se - it's what she does with her teeth while she's up there :?

She woke me up twice last night chewing the bars whilst swinging - and unfortunately we live in a semi-detached house and my hamsters are all the same side as the dividing wall - so I worry about annoying the neighbours. There's also the worry that she'll damage her teeth or face with constant bar chewing - I have another girl who badly cut her face recently and had to move cages.

As for P@H I've been shocked how tame and healthy Aero has turned out to be - purely because I've heard so many bad things about P@H animals. My only other personal experience with P@H and their animals was in 2006 when we were looking at getting our first hamster and we went there. The Syrians they had, we were warned by a staff member, were "wild" and I was told to keep the children well away from the cages as they'd get bitten :roll:

Gust0o

02-15-2008, 06:26 AM

She's chewing and monkey-barring?

Wow, that's some hamster!

You might consider slipping some cardboard between the grills - should save on buying wooden bridges - if she's determined to get up there and chew.

I'm assuming she's got plenty of others toys? Chews? Space? I mean, there's an interesting article, on this site, about cage chewing, and why it often occurs. There's nothing overly stressing this hamster, is there?

I've managed to ween Bob off cage chewing with a regular rotation of toys - for my next trick I need to stop little Dave from "window cleaning"... think I'm nearly there!

Bunsey

02-15-2008, 11:08 AM

She looks absolutely fantastic - and, if people will humour me in making a positive comment about P@H, their animals are often quite tame, owing to the massive amount of human contact they get.

We've got a very busy store, up here in York, and the animals are - almost without exception - incredibly tame, as per Biggie and Tupac.

i'm really shocked! :o i have 2 local p@h stores and the hamsters are NEVER handled and are petrified of humans! the ones i've bought from there have taken weeks to tame. (2 syrian - 1 from each store, 1 chinese, several robos). they just cowered away in terror! when i bought Holly, they let me hold her and she wet herself and pooped runny poo all over me and lept on the floor. she was so affraid.

Spuds Mum

02-15-2008, 12:02 PM

She's delightful Julie, and, not to restart what has been done to death, but she sure looks dove to me in those pics! :wink:

Bronte has now discovered standing on her ladder and stretching full length she can just chew the bars at the edge of the logs! :evil:

After a visit to P@H tonight I've bought some of those 'grass mats' which I am going to fit alongside the logs - I am going to scupper your babies plans one way or another to rub her nose raw! :D

Holly

02-15-2008, 12:11 PM

She's delightful Julie, and, not to restart what has been done to death, but she sure looks dove to me in those pics! :wink:

Thanks Teresa - I think she is as well - she's showing no sign of "browning" or eye-rings as she matures and I must confess I'll be shocked if they tell me she's a Mink at Highworth!

Bronte has now discovered standing on her ladder and stretching full length she can just chew the bars at the edge of the logs! :evil:

After a visit to P@H tonight I've bought some of those 'grass mats' which I am going to fit alongside the logs - I am going to scupper your babies plans one way or another to rub her nose raw! :D

Ooooh - have you got a picture of them? They sound like just what I need! The amazing thing with my girls who chew and the log bridges is that those who were the worst offenders (Minnie and Milly) seem to have given up and rarely bother trying to get round the logs whilst the other two "lesser chewers" - Molly and Smartie are currently doing my head in with their ingenious schemes to thwart me :evil:

I could do with another weapon :roll:

Mollz

02-15-2008, 12:23 PM

Julie, the grass mats are sold in most p@hs as far as I am aware of. Also, I have seen similar things in places like poundstretcher or any other cheap household shops.

Spuds Mum

02-15-2008, 12:35 PM

Julie
They are super pet ones and a little larger than I would ideally like, but Im going to have a fiddle with them

Here they are
http://www.superpetusa.com/files%5C200px%5C60392.jpg

Holly

02-15-2008, 01:56 PM

Oooh thanks for that, they might come in handy and look a bit easier to trim than the log bridges are.

Aero is 106g this evening - she's put on 8g in 5 days and is eating like mad :wink:

Gust0o

02-15-2008, 04:10 PM

i'm really shocked! :o i have 2 local p@h stores and the hamsters are NEVER handled and are petrified of humans! the ones i've bought from there have taken weeks to tame. (2 syrian - 1 from each store, 1 chinese, several robos). they just cowered away in terror! when i bought Holly, they let me hold her and she wet herself and pooped runny poo all over me and lept on the floor. she was so affraid.

I'm the one really shocked! I can't believe there can be such a big gap in quality, from one store to the next.

Biggie and Tupac came from the York store - and were tame enough to walk straight onto my hand. That sold me straight away, as I had been expecting something more like you had with Holly.

I wasn't the only one handling animals - the staff were confident about picking the hamsters up, and thus they were getting a lot of handling by the customers.

I think the only ones that seemed a little neglected were the big Syrians - but only relatively so! They were in the highest cage, with the dwarves down at child-eyeline.

The only ones not being picked up were the Robos - people were supervised holding their hand in the cage. Wary staff suggests they know their breeds! :lol:

Maybe I've just been in at the right time of day - certainly they have a couple of young chaps on small animals, who seem most excellent in their ability to handle the animals!

Basia

02-15-2008, 06:10 PM

I think that's really good, I wish the staff in ours would handle the hamsters. They admit they are scared of them and they just push them into boxes. When I put my hand into the pen and stroked Peaches I was warned she would probably bite me. She had already rolled on her back and hissed at the assistant but although she started to do it with me I just left my hand there and she calmed down and I stroked her and then picked her up. The shop assistant was absolutely gobsmacked, she couldn't believe I had just picked her up and that Peaches had let me. If they all handled them a little bit every day it would make such a difference, as it obviously does in the York store.

Gust0o

02-16-2008, 05:16 AM

Could be something to flag back to the store - businesses do, honestly, listen to feedback.

I mean, from their perspective, staff telling you an animal is "wild" is hardly creating the best sales environment! :shock:

That's not to say I haven't had some duff experiences in P@H - including a "Sorry, I normally work on fish" prior to a hamster bite, for one unfortunate - if well intentioned - member of staff :lol:

Give the store some honest feedback - let's see if we can change this :!:

Basia

02-16-2008, 01:06 PM

Quite a few of us have mentioned it to the manager Gus, they say they haven't got time to tame the hamsters. :(

Gust0o

02-16-2008, 02:57 PM

Well, we've tried the store manager - now we write to their Managing Director :)

As their own corporate brief says:

"Not content with resting on our laurels, we are committed to our most vital resource - our talented and diverse workforce - providing first class training to ensure everyone reaches their full potential while continuing to exceed the high expectations of our loyal customers."

In your experience these expectations have yet to be met - having met staff patently incapable of dealing with the animals in their care; with an indifferent management culture, which has only been capable of snubbing your concerns.

This isn't so much "resting on laurels", so much as a complete failure to engage with the customer!

As such you can, in no way, recommend Pets at Home' on the basis of an experience vastly removed from the image portrayed by the company:

"Winners of the prestigious Global PETS Award in recognition of outstanding levels of customer service within the industry"

Luke Mayhew is the chairman of Pets at Home - the company address is listed:

PETS AT HOME LTD
EPSOM AVENUE
STANLEY GREEN TRADING ESTATE
HANDFORTH
CHESHIRE SK9 3RN

I would mention the manager by name - companies live and die by the quality of their service; and you would be, in many respects, doing them a good service in pointing out where this is failing.

I'd be quite happy to put this together for all of you - if you could provide me with verbatim, and details.

This is my field of expertise, at work - home ground! Probably why I'm absolutely disgusted with the response of that manager... millions of pounds worth of investment; training; marketing - wasted by one individual, who should have known better - who should be an advocate! :evil:

Gust0o

02-16-2008, 03:02 PM

http://www.marketing-society.org.uk/SiteCollectionImages/Luke_Mayhew.jpg

Luke Mayhew

Luke is chairman of Pets at Home, the UK market leader in pet products and accessories with over 210 retail stores. He is a non executive director of Brambles, WH Smith and Tate Enterprises. He was chairman of Bank, the, young branded fashion retailer recently sold to JD Sports.

He was until 2005 managing director of John Lewis, the Department Store business, having moved to that role in 2000 from development director John Lewis Partnership. Before that he was CEO (Europe) at Shandwick, the PR group.

Luke has spent over 25 years in Consumer Services having previously also worked in senior development, marketing and HR roles at British Airways and Thomas Cook.

(... in short, he'd love to hear about all your experiences!)

Basia

02-17-2008, 04:48 AM

I've read your post Gus and given it a lot of thought, but I don't want to do it for a number of reasons (which you may well think are quite lame!)
The first one is that as I don't work at P@H I have no idea whether they have time to handle the hamsters and they could make a valid argument that it is better not to handle them in the shop environment as they are already stressed.
Secondly, the manager has always been very decent to me and always give me free samples, has let me change things just because I am awkward, etc. In Hereford our unemployment figures are good but this is not a true reflection, the population is skewed by people choosing to retire here for starters and many people commute to work. In my Close only 2 main earners work in Hereford, the others are retired or like my OH and our immediate neighbours, commute to Bristol, Birmingham, Cardiff, Worcester, Gloucester. I don't want to cause trouble for someone who has always treated me well.
Thirdly, from what I have read on the boards during the last couple of years, my P@H is the norm and yours is unusual. Perhaps yours needs to be commended for its efforts?

Gust0o

02-17-2008, 05:49 AM

Perhaps yours needs to be commended for its efforts?

Oh yes, it has been - and it was the York manager who suggested appealing to higher powers. I think he's quite conscious of the difficulties of culture change.

I'd still be tempted to write - and you can reflect on some of the positives as you do so. I think people get confused, and consider this kind of thing a complaint - perhaps it might well develop into such, but I would term it feedback. And feedback should be constructive, to help people reflect, and amend behaviours positively.

The end-goal is to get a better experience for the customers - not to simply get someone in trouble.

They all sound like important reasons - which you've spent time thinking about; so I'll leave it with you, and respect your decision :)

heleni0

04-16-2008, 06:13 PM

Pippin was from P@H :oops: I don't regret it for a second though; she's absolutely wonderful. I blame my dad anyway, it was him who said, "Can you manage in here while I go into WH Smiths?' :P

They only had two Syrians, both looked pretty much the same colour and Pip was trying to climb up her water bottle while the other one was fast asleep. It was 'OMG so cute!!!!' at first sight.

In my defense, I was still feeling the big-empty-gapness of losing Houdini, and my dog, my rats, and my last two hamsters were all rescues - it was about time I got to choose a pet rather than have them find me through circumstance. I'm the go-to girl when you decide you don't want your 'beloved' pet any more :evil:

I must say though, the staff at my nearest P@H (Teesside Park) have always been great with me.

Moosley

04-17-2008, 06:28 AM

I might possibly be able to answer a question or two?

Its taken ages of really getting to know every single pet store in a huge radius, talk to people, help them, let them know your friends etc, buy supplies from them but chat chat chat.

The rest of this post has been removed. Please do not post about specific retailers etc on the forum. People may make their own judgments based on their own experiences with any particular company. Any complaints or concerns should be addressed to the company concerned. Remember this is a public forum and action could be taken against you regarding statements made on the forum.
Souffle

Bunsey

04-17-2008, 07:24 AM

what a sicko. It's disgusting how on that site he's got the list of products.... frozen mouse pinkies, frozen day old chicks, frozen hamsters etc... like he was selling sweets :cry:

littlemissdwarfhamster

04-17-2008, 01:39 PM

I know this post is a little late but, in reply to this:

I've read your post Gus and given it a lot of thought, but I don't want to do it for a number of reasons (which you may well think are quite lame!)
The first one is that as I don't work at P@H I have no idea whether they have time to handle the hamsters and they could make a valid argument that it is better not to handle them in the shop environment as they are already stressed.
Secondly, the manager has always been very decent to me and always give me free samples, has let me change things just because I am awkward, etc. In Hereford our unemployment figures are good but this is not a true reflection, the population is skewed by people choosing to retire here for starters and many people commute to work. In my Close only 2 main earners work in Hereford, the others are retired or like my OH and our immediate neighbours, commute to Bristol, Birmingham, Cardiff, Worcester, Gloucester. I don't want to cause trouble for someone who has always treated me well.
Thirdly, from what I have read on the boards during the last couple of years, my P@H is the norm and yours is unusual. Perhaps yours needs to be commended for its efforts?

I would always suggest you speak up. There is a free phone customer line where you can talk about any problems that you have seen in store or with a product or anything really. They are very helpful on all counts and if the problem is at store level they are very quick to get on to stores to sort it out. And thats was should happen, if nobody speaks out then no improvements will happen.

York is an excellent store, but that is the norm that all the 220 stores are striving for, but we may need help along they way, and that help can come from you guys. And you may not believe this but most of the stores are indeed excellent. However you rarely hear abaout 'good' stores just the 'bad' ones so this does give a negative impression.

But on a hamster note, there are some real beauties in this thread and I am so jealous :-) Our pets at home is having a run on sable dom spots and sable dom spot bandeds - lovely LOL