chinese genetics

[Matty Day]

Does anyone know any chinese genetics im having trouble getting info?

[souffle]

I do not know of any specific info matty but in this months NHC journal Alex has written an article on breeding Chinese. If you PM me your address I will send you a photocopy if you like :lol:
I only know of two types of Chinese, normal and mottled.

[Bunsey]

yes there is only 2 types, the normal and 1 mutation - the dominant spot. there's some talk about another possible mutation - the all white, but people are sure whether it's a proper mutation or not.

[souffle]

I meant the dominant spot not mottled :oops: :oops: Arrrrg I am mixing up my patterns :oops:

[Foreverhamsters]

hi matty
there are technically only two actually breedable/established types of chinese hamsters. dominant spot and normal, there is however a third variation refered to as a black eyed white ( a pure white chinese hamster with black eyes so it isnt an albino) when doing gentics of chinese hamsters i was taught that you should refer to the dominant gene as a capital and the recessive gene with a lower case letter. for instance dominant spot would be D and normal would be d. its fairly simple to guess what should be in a litter between different coloured hamsters but there is always something strange that pops up from time to time, for example i mated two normals and they produced a totally dom spot litter :? .

soufle were u refering to me when you said alex? :lol: i cant remember writing an article about genetics :?

hope i helped matt : :D

[Foreverhamsters]

ooops i missed out about black eyed whites
they occaisionally occur in litters produced by a dom spot to dom spot mating, however some people have bred for over 15 years and never seen one. dom spot to dom spot litters are usually smaller than normal litters because the white gene is semi lethal in the dom spots. a black eyed white occurs when rather than deing in the womb one of the BEW is born. im finding it hard to put in to words :oops:

see if you can understand this a please tell me if this is aload of rubbish which is completed useless to you :lol:

dominant spot to dominant spot mating
D = dominant spot gene
d = normal gene
Dd is a dominant spot chinese
dd is a normal chinese

when a dominant spot Dd breeds with another dominant spot Dd it produces DD Dd Dd dd
so....
DD= a lethal gene, pups with this gentic configuration usually die in the womb and arent born
Dd= dominant spot
Dd= dominant spot
dd= normals however you dont always get normals in the litter i have found there is usually one in each litter

normal to normal mating
ok second equation
d = normal gene
D= dominant spot gene

dd = normal chinese hamster

so ddxdd will produce dd+dd+dd+dd all normals

just to make it easier pretend chinese have 4 pups in each litter
if normals breed together you will get four bnormal pups
if dom spots breed together you will get 3 pups 1 normal and 2 dom spot because the 4th the one with the lethal gene dies in the womb how ever sometimes this pup is born and there you have it a black eyed white !!!!!!

ok in future i wont talk about gentics :lol: because as you can see i am useless at explaining things

hope its helpful :p :lol:

[NaomiR]

well I don't know about Matty but I found that enormously useful and you are good at explaining things, I am a wally and I just about understood lol

[Saskia1982]

White is simply a hamster with two genes for dominant spot.
White x normal = 100% dominant spot..
I breed white chinese dwarfhamsters regular ;)

[souffle]

Perhaps the gene is growing stronger in Holland then Saskia and the pups more viable which is why you are seeing more white pups now. We don't see many in the UK

[Saskia1982]

The first whites in Holland were there ten years ago, but verry rare indeed.
Over the years we have had a few, but since two years they became easier to breed.
At this moment we have 10 young whites over 5 litters, one litter has 4 white's.
We have about 20 white adults to breed with, always white x dominant spot.
White x white simply doesn't breed..

[Foreverhamsters]

there have only been a few BEW's known about in the UK, and nothing up until now has really been done, to establish them, once we get this next batch into the country hopefully we might be able to get some where with breeding them.

[leafpool14]

Wouldnt breeding dom spots to white hamsters result in the lethal gene? the white hamster has the dom spot gene too, doesnt it? so it would be like breeding dom spot to dom spot, right?

[Saskia1982]

Bew is indeed a chinese hamster with two genes vor dom spot ;)

[leafpool14]

Bew is indeed a chinese hamster with two genes vor dom spot ;) Havent you had most of the litter die from the lethal gene then? or did you breed the white with a normal? im so into hamster biology, im doing it know for GCSE, its really facinating :D

[leafpool14]

Well, im doing biology, not hamster biology LOL

[haziebabie]

Well, im doing biology, not hamster biology LOL
:lol:

[Saskia1982]

BEW x natural wil give 100% dominant spot pups.
I'm breeding BEW, so i pair BEW to dominant spot, which results in dominant spot and BEW pups

[berty]

Oh that's interesting, I would be really interested in seeing some of your litters seskia1982, as I've only seen one, and I know somebody who has bred them 30 years, and not seen any, and she tried.

I used to breed Chinese hamsters and even had some colonies going. I actually had a BEW in one of my litters. She had two litters, both produced Dom Spots. I couldnt reproduce any more though, not with any of the siblings in the lines I had.

Here's a few pictures of her.

http://www.hamstercareforum.co.uk/assets/galleries/180/bew02.jpg

http://www.hamstercareforum.co.uk/assets/galleries/180/bew05.jpg

http://www.hamstercareforum.co.uk/assets/galleries/180/bew04.jpg

Up till now, the BEW was considered a mutation that couldnt be bred. It just showed up as a one off. I do have a theory about it, which is that breeding DOM Spot x DOM Spot, produces the semi lethal gene (not the lethal gene, which means its perfectly safe to breed DS x DS), which means unlike the Syrian or the Campbells, where the babies are born white and eyeless, the babies are not born, they are reabsorbed back into the females body, before they reach maturity. Which is why they sometimes have small litters. I think that now and again, nature allows one of the babies to be born, thus producing the BEW. For years it was thought here the UK, that BEW's were infertile, especially the males, as most people who had them appear in their litters due to their smaller size, they either died young, or hardly ever produced anything. I was fortunate, in that my little girl did produce. Plus she lived quite a long healthy life. I'll try to find some pictures I have of her babies.

Hope that helps.

[berty]

I just found a picture of her and the father and a litter.

[berty]

Here's a clearere picture of the two babies.

Edit:
I forgot to mention, there was one thing that surprised me, I had a hamster judge look at her, and he said that he thought it was extreme overspotting of the DS gene.

[souffle]

It would have to be very extreme berty as there appears to be no spots at all on her! :wink:
They are lovely animals. I guess they are no longer with us?

[berty]

Unfortunately, no I stopped keeping them a while back, they all passed away now.