Are tomatoes ok to give Chinese hamsters?

[starog]

Charlie my Syrian loves tomatoes. I haven't tried Ronnie (what do you think of that name? I'm trying it out) on them. With chinese hams being susceptible to diabetes, I was wondering if tomatoes are ok for them? I'm not really sure how much sugar they have in?

[Mikayla]

I personally would not feed them tomatoes as at as they are quite acid-y and wouldn't be too good for them.

[starog]

Ah ok thanks!

Charlie would eat a tub if I let him, he only gets half a cherry tom every so often but I think they're his favourite. I'll keep them in the exclusive syrian food club then :)

[SnickersTheFirst]

I feed tomato every few weeks, but be sure to remove the seedy part so you're just left with skin and flesh. :)

[racinghamster]

A little piece of tomato (no seeds) once in a while won`t hurt, but definately not as a daily treat. I`m not big on feeding too many veggies to hamsters incase it upsets their gut.

[starog]

Thanks! I think I'll keep my chinese tomato free and give my syrian them as the occasional treat :)

[racinghamster]

Probably best starog. How are you finding your chinese? I adore them as a species. :)

[starog]

He's adorable :D
Taming is coming along really well. He's a little nippy, just little exploratory nips though. I can see chinese becoming my favourite species :)

[racinghamster]

Yes, I found that too with my little female, but she never nips now. Chinese don`t actually bite, they only `nip` slightly I feel because they are a little unsure. I place a few seeds of hemp or millet in my open hand and my chinese happily takes treats that way. She will readily hop into a little fleece pocket that I use to transport her from her cage to my bed in the evenings to play and rummage about in old bed clothes! :mad: It`s little and often with them. Respecting their natural shyness.

A friend of mine on another forum has a male who she adopted from Pets At Home adoption area and he just doesn`t like contact and has nipped quite a lot, but my friend respects that and lets him decide whether he wants handled or not. Sometimes it can take a while and a lot of patience to get them to trust and settle, but it`s worth it.

[SnickersTheFirst]

Chinese don`t actually bite, they only `nip` slightly I feel because they are a little unsure.

You haven't met Bailey! ;) haha :mad: Although, he's been through more than most hammies so I don't blame him. :rolleyes:

[starog]

I place a few seeds of hemp or millet in my open hand and my chinese happily takes treats that way. She will readily hop into a little fleece pocket that I use to transport her from her cage to my bed in the evenings to play and rummage about in old bed clothes! :mad: It`s little and often with them. Respecting their natural shyness.


I do the thing with the seeds, he's getting more and more confident. He just jumps straight onto my hand now, usually has a little nip of my thumb first/ during though :mad:

We made some great progress last night, he was exploring both of my hands but I haven't fully handled him yet. I want to get things just right with him. Little and often as you say but I already adore him :D

Possibly as silly question...I'm aware there are two different colourings for chinese hams, are dominant spotted ones like that from birth or does they dominant spot grow as they do?

Is there a way to age a hamster? I have no idea how old Ronnie is

[racinghamster]

I`m not a breeder so I wouldn`t know the answer to that I`m afraid, but I would `guess` that dom spot babies are born already whiter? Not too sure if they get lighter as they grow/age though.... my little lady is the normal wild colouring and much as I like the look of the dominant spot, I prefer the natural agouti browns personally. I don`t want to see chinese hamsters being bred silly by people in order to get a new colour, rather than focusing on keeping the species strong healthwise. You just have to look at what happened to the dwarf Campbells Russian hamster and how their health was compromised by animals being brought in from abroad and bred with hamsters here that were healthy. I would rather have a wild, normal coloured hamster than one that`s from a long strain of manipulated genes just to have a fancy colour! You won`t get that from GOOD breeders however as they don`t knowingly sell animals to people who don`t know what they are doing or people they don`t know and trust to continue their good work. Here here to that.

[racinghamster]

Oops, sorry Snickers, I skipped past your post! :oops: :mad: I`m sure even the most docile chinese will react especially if they have a `past`, poor thing.

Bailey is the three legged little guy yes?

[starog]

Completely agree! I was just curious, Ronnie seems to be a bit lighter than what I'd expect for a natural coloured chinese but it could be my imagination or he could just be lighter. Breeders shouldn't mess with nature, Campbells Russians are a prime example of why.

Going back to the original question -sort of anyway-, are there any types of fruit/veg that chinese hams would benefit from?
I want to give my little guy the best diet but I want to be sure everything is safe for him :)

[racinghamster]

Fruits are a no, no because they contain natural sugars (fructose). Some veg can be safe, but I`ve yet to find a list I would be happy with. What I tend to do as far as veg is concerned, is take a small piece of tomato or green bean or broccoli and only give a small piece to Prinny as an ocassional treat. Veg that is natrally sweet like sweetcorn and carrot should not be fed for example. Water cress is okay and is easy to grow. :) I plan to do a little research on a `safe` list for chinese hamsters, altough I`m not big on feeding `fresh` foods incase it unbalances her gut flora, causing runy poo. A hamsters poo should be dry and formed, not runny or too soft. Feeding too much veg or feeding veg when a hamster isn`t used to it can result in a bowel change. Not something you want as it can be difficult to stabalise if diahorrea starts.

Chinese hamsters are very much `mouse-like` in appearance and character and tend to be on the light side. They don`t weight that much to be honest. :)

[starog]

Got'cha :)
Water cress it is then and the occasional tomato.

Thanks for all your advice, you've been a great help! There isn't that much information on chinese hamsters compared to other species so it's been nice to be able to chat with someone who has experience with them.

[racinghamster]

I gave my little one a small piece of tomato yesterday afternoon since was having some on my piece of toast and she loved it! :)

I agree about the information on chinese hamsters being a bit lacking or `samey` on the internet, but sometimes it`s better to search using their genus name Cricetulus Griseus. ;) This site is quite good:

Chinese Hamster (http://www.oocities.org/efexotics/chinesehamster.html)

Many websites state that chinese can have fruit which is untrue. Fruit contains fructose which is a naturally produced sugar. Some are higher than others but it`s always a good idea to look into anything fresh that is fed for it`s sugar content. It also depends on the amount they are fed and the frequency of it. That`s why I only give a little piece of fresh veg that I know is safe a few times a week. The link above is good reading.

[Gamina]

I have a diabetic sister who is type 1. Is diabetes in hamsters similar to diabetes in humans in terms of causes relating to insulin etc?

I have never risked fruit or sugary veg with my Chinese as a matter or caution and with so little advice available online. However (type 1 diabetes withstanding) diabetes brought about in life or type 2 in a human is commonly thought to be brought about by excess sugar consumption is a myth. Its brought about my obesity and other factors that can be brought about by eating to much sugar i.e. you get fat by eating to much sugar but the sugar itself is not the root cause. So are the causes the same in hamsters?

Regardless of the causes in humans (and hamsters) avoidance of fruit in humans is seen as silly. Contrary to the ever increasing myth that fruit sugars are bad in humans I know my sister is encouraged to eat fruits that are high in fructose and fibre as this is good for controlling her insulin levels. She is told to avoid high glucose fruits such as pineapple but apple for instance is high fibre, low glucose and high in pectin which can actually help insulin stability...

While this post has not been made to promote people feeding sugar to diabetes prone dwarfs it does make me wonder how similar the conditions are in humans and hamsters and I am being to strict in feeding my hamster and if like with himans some fruit can be beneficial to such a condition.

[SnickersTheFirst]

Oops, sorry Snickers, I skipped past your post! :oops: :mad: I`m sure even the most docile chinese will react especially if they have a `past`, poor thing.

Bailey is the three legged little guy yes?

Yep, he is. I can tell he's a sweetheart though but he's just terrified of people. :( I decided to end taming after 4 months of no results and he seems happier when left alone tbh. :D

[racinghamster]

My friends male chinese is a bit the same Snickers and likes to do his own thing. He was a PAH adoption and had been in a home previous to her taking him and kids had been banging on the glass when he was in store, so he can`t be blamed for reacting in such a negitive way. Maybe sometimes you do get chinese hams who (through no fault of their own or the owners) who just don`t like contact very much, but tolerate more than enjoy.

Gamina, I really don`t know enough about human or animal comparisons where diabetes and diet are concerned, but I like to personally be cautious with foods that are noted to be fed with caution. Hamsters are much smaller than humans and I imagine of they are fed copious amounts of frucose or fat, it wouldn`t take too long for their bodies to react to it, which is why I prefer to be cautious. Your probably right about feeding a wee piece of apple or grape even, but not so much the sweeter fruits like pineapple or banana. :)

I think it`s always going to be a talking point, but be wary of what we feed, how much and how often. If that is taken into account, no real harm should be done.

[kyrilliondaemon]

Snickers - He might come around yet. With our robos neither liked people and Whizz especially was petrified. We went with leaving her alone and just keeping her cage in the room where we sleep so that she could get used to us being completely harmless while asleep. Then when she was ok about being out in her cage and letting us approach slowly, we progressed to dropping treats through the top of her cage when she was awake, eventually she stopped rushing off to hide. Now we've progressed to being allowed to take her food bowl in and out when she's awake, she even wakes up when she hears me feeding Scamp because she knows she gets food next. She still doesn't want to touch us very often but it shows that eventually even the really scared ones can improve.

This thread is really useful though, I'm regarding our russians diet as the same as a chinese diet in regards to low sugar, so its useful to know they can have a tiny piece of tomato once in a while :)

[alisont]

I do give Dudley a tiny bit of cherry tomato about once a week as he loves it and a tiny bit of cucumber as he also thinks that's great, but I don't give fruit or vege often as I'd read about Chinese hamsters being prone to diabetes.
Dudley also likes the odd nut as in a tiny bit of cashew or almond, hope that's ok.
I love Chinese hammys Dudley has the sweetest nature - has never even nibbled me once ever since I found him months back.

[Vectis Hamstery]

There are a few questions that have been raised for which I'd like to offer answers.

Are dominant spotted ones like that from birth or does they dominant spot grow as they do?

The dominant spot pattern is genetically determined, and some hairs are white and others are normal coloured. Therefore the patterning is present as soon as pigment develops in the skin a few days after birth (before even they develop fur). In accordance with forum rules, I can't post pictures to demonstrate this though.

Ronnie seems to be a bit lighter than what I'd expect for a natural coloured chinese but it could be my imagination or he could just be lighter.
The normal colour can come in many shades, just as brown hair in a human can. The standard calls for mahogany colour, but there are many Chinese that can appear washed out. This is more common in a normal offspring from a dom spot parent. This is why I am breeding normal to normal to try and improve the lovely rich mahogany colour.

Breeders shouldn't mess with nature
I'm afraid breeders have to, as sustaining pet hamsters from wild caught animals would have terrible implications on wild populations. Not all changes selective captive breeding have made are bad. For example, wild caught hamsters tend to have shorter lives in initial generations than captive bred hamsters.

Is there a way to age a hamster?
It is possible to identify a very young hamster or one that looks old from examination of the hamster, for example on the show bench. It is not generally possible to be more specific than that though.

Is diabetes in hamsters similar to diabetes in humans in terms of causes relating to insulin etc?
Chinese hamsters were used for research into diabetes in the 1960s. Some of the articles imply a more insulin deficiency (type 1) than insulin resistance (type 2) pattern, although this doesn't fit with what is seen in practice from the disease in Chinese hamsters and its response to oral hypoglycaemics. If you want more info on diabetes in hamsters and references to the original articles, please see the section on my website.

There isn't that much information on chinese hamsters compared to other species so it's been nice to be able to chat with someone who has experience with them.
I found this problem also when starting out with Chinese which is why I devoted my website to all things Chinesey :)

[SnickersTheFirst]

Snickers - He might come around yet. With our robos neither liked people and Whizz especially was petrified. We went with leaving her alone and just keeping her cage in the room where we sleep so that she could get used to us being completely harmless while asleep. Then when she was ok about being out in her cage and letting us approach slowly, we progressed to dropping treats through the top of her cage when she was awake, eventually she stopped rushing off to hide. Now we've progressed to being allowed to take her food bowl in and out when she's awake, she even wakes up when she hears me feeding Scamp because she knows she gets food next. She still doesn't want to touch us very often but it shows that eventually even the really scared ones can improve.



He's fine with being stroked while in his cage but it's as soon as I lift him off the ground he gets angry. I assume due to bad handling in his previous home and being scruffed several times a day after his op. I love the little man, either way. :D

[starog]

Wow, thanks Vectis! Along with Racing Hamster, you have cleared so many things up for me.

I've check out your site as well, a haven for information!

I've decided that Ronnie is 7 weeks and 1 day. Since they have to be 5 weeks before they can find loving homes (I believe?), I decided he's been at the pet shop for one week and I've had him for 8 days. All complete guess work but I wanted to give the little guy a birthday :)

[racinghamster]

He sounds like a special wee lad starog and I`m sure he will be a good companion to you for years to come. Chinese are said to be the longest lived of the hamster species, which for me is wonderful because it means if they are well cared for and genetically strong, they will be around longer than your average ham! :) My female is guestimated to be about 18 months of age, but that`s just going by the age I was told when I rehomed her back in June this year.

[starog]

We had the best taming session ever tonight, he's coming on leaps and bounds! :D :D

Oh he's my special boy, Racing Hamster. I was in P@H the other day, he got far too many toys but he seems to love them :).

That's my concern, he's from P@H so his genetics may not be brilliant but I'm determined to give him the best chance at a long life.

It sounds like you're getting on tremendously well with your little lady and it's obvious she's having the time of her life!

When will my little boy start showing big signs of being a man, if you know what I mean? :oops:

[racinghamster]

I find that chinese hamsters are very much their own little characters but at the same time, people orientated. I`m sure that statement can be said for the some of the other species of hamster aswell, but the difference is clear to see with chinese because they are far more less likely to nip, bite or become stroppy in character. I`ve kept fancy mice for ten years as pets, but don`t have any at the moment and I`m finding that Prinny has a lot of the same characteristics of a mouse. She`s intelligent, she likes interaction and doesn`t mind being gently scooped up and will cling to and play on and under my clothes, much as mice will do. This really appeals to me when looking for a hamster as a pet and I think the chinese will grow in popularity if anyone who chooses to keep one is willing to see those qualities in the chinese, rather than see them as shy, timid or for some other reason, not very `hamster` like! That`s probably because they are not dwarf hamsters, which many assume they are. They are a different `genus`, but are labelled as `dwarf` hamsters because they have pouches and originate from a part of the world that dictates they are burrowing, pouched hamster-like rodents.

For me, the chinese is not like any hamster I`ve kept before and she`s a breath of fresh air and a true companion.

[Flamestriker]

Racing hamster I'm going to have a nose on your website because you have intrigued me. Can you recommend any good books to? Iv got an unstable Internet connection. It's working at mo, but it could go down at any time. I want a Chinese hammie but I know nothing about them

[racinghamster]

I think you mean the Vectis Hamstery website? ;) It`s definately a good thing to read up about the chinese before making a decision to have one because they suit some people but not others. It depends what you are looking for in a hamster and although hamsters are generally much the same as far as sleeping patterns, playing and diet are concerned, the chinese (for me anyway) are by far the best `people` friendly. Don`t get me wrong, I`ve had a little nip now and then from Prinny when she`s been lifted up while a little scattie! But believe me, when I say `nip`, it`s nothing more than that and it has only happened on a few occassions. Chinese hamsters need settling in and time to get to know you, just like any hamster would. :)

I had never kept a chinese before I rehomed Prinny and got lucky when a member on here asked me if I wanted one of her pair and I said yes. I`m so glad I did now. She`s introduced me to a world of hamster ownership I never knew existed and even though I also have a male syrian who I hardly see because he`s a bit of a sleeper!, I would have another chinese tomorrow, rather than a syrian anyday.

[starog]

From my very short time with chinese hamsters, I can see they are going to be my favourite type of hamster. I feel like when he wants my company, he really wants it and enjoys being with me but when he's after some of his own time, he'll make that clear (not by biting) and I respect that. I actually like that, I think it adds a lot of character. I don't always feel like being sociable and I like that my little boy feels that way too!

I've never had a bite from my guy, nips but not bites. He seems to love my thumbs, always nipping those, but it's more of a nibble. he thinks I have tasty thumbs ;)

I agree with Racing Hamster, read up and see if they suit you as I can see why they wouldn't be suited to everyone as pets. I don't think I'd ever not have a chinese hamster again.

[racinghamster]

I feel the same way starog, yet when in the past I had Roborovskis, I vowed never to have them again and I never did. They were just too small and fast and aggressive (territorial) for my liking. My Russian dwarf was lovely, but my chinese beats them all hands down. But then chinese as I said earlier are much more like mice. They love to climb and cling, they love human company and won`t take your finger off if you happen to wake them up! :mad:

[starog]

I'm really curious about Robos, I don't know why, they fascinate me. I don't think I'll ever get one though, they aren't really suited to me (or I'm not suited to them!).

When I set out to get Ronnie, I was going to get a Russian but as soon as I had that chinese bundle of joy in my hand, that was that.

Possibly another silly question, I'm at the stage where I want to let my little guy have free time, not in the bath tub. I'm a little nervous that if I put him on the bed, he'll dart off and I'll be on my first rescue mission. Are chinese likely to do that? Or will he never leave my side? I'm planning to make it a enclosed but I've still got that worry :(

[racinghamster]

If your cage has a lift-off lid like a Zoozone 1 or similar, what I did, was allow Prinny to sit inside the cage base with the lid off on my bed. This allows them to feel safe inside their cage, but also gives them a peek at the outside world without feeling overwhelmed. My bed has a fleece bed cover, so this can be important because chinese `grip` well, so if exploring around a bed and getting near the sides, they tend to stay where they are and use that grip, but will attempt to crawl down anything remotely near a wall or loosely draped to the floor, so the fleece must be over the bed with no long ends dangling down to the floor or against anything that would allow them to explore a dark corner! :mad:

Little and often is the key here. What you need to do, is see if your wee guy will happily seek out your sleeve. Prinny runs up my pyjama sleeve all the time and ends up inside my t.shirt! :mad: She will then tickle me silly and come out the other sleeve back into her cage, when I immediately hand feed her a treat from my open palm! This went on for a good few weeks before I allowed her onto the bed. I place some small fleece pet blankets and old bed jackets onto the bed, where she loves to run around, climbing over and under these. I sit on the bed and watch TV while she plays. Some evenings she will fall asleep in the sleeve inside the bed jacket while I watch TV and I stay there until she wakes up. Usually for about 20 minutes. I leave a few seeds scattered around the bed for her to find and nibble on.

When she starts darting about and looking a bit tense, I know she wants back to her cage, so using an old pocket hammock with the straps cut off (something like an old wide oven glove might suit aswell) I offer this and she jumps in. I then use this pocket fleece to hold close to my body and walk the few steps back to her cage and gently lower the pocket. She pops out, I again feed her a couple of help or millet seeds and she runs to her `stash` corner! She usually goes for a drink and then starts to have a dig about and then goes back to her tea box! :mad:

This is Prinny`s evening routine now and she loves it. I leave her alone through the day because she just pops out for a nibble and a drink and then darts back to her nest, so I respect that. She has the TV on very low in my room all day so she`s never left in complete isolation. I also leave a small lamp on, especially in the winter when it`s darker during the day. But I spend a lot of my time up here anyway so my room is more like a living room than a bedroom! :mad:

Hope this little explanation has helped you with possible training tips! Sleeve first, then little episodes on the bed with a fleece cover and plenty of old clothing for the hamster to play in. ;) Makes them feel safe. Chinese don`t appreciate large open spaces and will dart to the nearest hiding place, so ur bed should have some bits scattered over it and he will get used to smelling these when he`s out and get familiar with them.

[starog]

All of that sounds fun :D

He's been having a sniff around my sleeve but I've been the nervous one and got a bit shy, I'll let him have a wander tonight and see what happens :)

I have a bin cage so the lid comes off, he's so nosey so I'm sure in time he'll be sniffing out my bed. I'm definitely going to try the sleeve thing first and get him used to that first. Do what you did and do that for a few weeks first before introducing him to the joys running around my bed.

I love the sound of your routine, it sounds like great fun for both of you :). Aww so sweet that Prinny falls asleep with you. I spend most of my time in the same room as Ronnie so lights and sometimes the TV are on, he also is never in isolation for too long.

Awesome tips for the next stage of taming, thanks very much :)

[racinghamster]

Glad you found my routine helpful starog. I was the same when first getting Prinny used to me. I still had a couple of my female mice at the time so didn`t do too much with Prinny for a weeks and then found that she told me when she wanted to play! This is when she wanted to explore my sleeve. :x In the evenings, I put on my cotton pyjama top, which has loos-ish sleeves anyway, but I have a t.shirt on under this, which is tucked in, so if prinny scrambles up my sleeve and into my t.shirt, she can`t drop out the bottom....if you know what I mean! But with you having a smaller Duna tank, it might be a better idea if you sat down on your bed or near his cage if he climbs into your sleeve incase he manages to poke his nose out the other end!!!

One thing he might do, is scuttle about inside your top and you should lean forward and look down the neck end of your top to let him see the opening. Prinny will sometimes climb up and I can feel her little breath on my chin! It`s so sweet....

She will then go back down again, try to have a dig about and if she gets frustrated, she will nip my belly! :o:mad: I just react by saying "ouch, you little tinker"! and she moves on! It`s more fun than anything else. That`s what they do. I can then feel her climbing up top again to find the top of the armpit and she crawls bac down again!

If he gets into a game, he will try and hop into your sleeve often, but if he`s not in the mood, he won`t. It really depends on their mood. Prinny is like a little trained monkey now and it`s hard to believe she was a year old when I got her, so giving her an oportunity to come out of her shell has been really rewarding for her and for me.

[starog]

Awww! This sounds like the sweetest thing ever! So cute that you can feel her breathing on your chin. Prinny sounds adorable.

I'm going to give this a go and let you know how we get on.

Don't know about you but everytime I see my little guy, I'm always a smitten kitten and can't help thinking how lovely sweet adorable wonderful gorgeous etc etc he is. Always brings a huge smile to my face :D
I keep waiting for the novelty to wear off, and for me not to grin insane amounts but it hasn't yet!

[racinghamster]

:mad: They do have that effect don`t they? Someone on here suggested that chinese hamsters have `Disney` eyes and that seems to describe their characters aswell!

Edited to add: Going back to the Tomato question, I did some reading yesterday on tomatoes and generally found out the following:

" Tomatoes are a natural antioxidant that can help prevent heart disease and cancer. When cooked, they produce lycopene, which is said to inhibit the cells of cancer. They are cholestorol free and contain ascorbic acid (vitamin C)."

As a side note though, I wouldn`t feed tomatoes more than twice a week to chinese hamsters and only a small piece (say about 5mm in size) spread over three days apart incase it caused a tummy upset. Tomatoes are naturally acidic, so would be beneficial in acidifying the urine and possibly prevent the urine becoming too alkaline, which can cause crystals to form in the bladder.

Other safe veggies are:

Watercress
Broccoli
Cauliflower
Cucumber
Kale
Turnip
dandelion greens
Mung bean sprouts
Green beans

[Roxie]

Edited to add: Going back to the Totato question

I say Tomato you say Totato ;)

[racinghamster]

:mad: Silly me! Now edited.

[Roxie]

I'm sorry I brought attention to it, I just couldn't resist :D

[racinghamster]

I`ll blame my new reading glasses....well.....they are from Specsavers after all. :rolleyes: