COOP Bran flakes for diabetic dwarfies

[Pouchy]

As my hamsters have developed diabetes in the last 2 - 3 weeks is it OK to feed them bran flakes as a substitute for sweetcorn etc.
The amount of water they consume is phenomenal amounting to about 150 ml each in about 3 - 4 days. I try to remove all the things from the food that may contain sugar or its derivatives but their diet is now a bit boring. They don't care for porridge oats either. Is turnip OK as carrot is not ?
From human diabetes knowledge it can be assumed that the dwarf hamsters will have this condition throughout their lives. Is it true that their already short lives could be reduced by half or more?
However, apart from the thirst, they are quite lively critters in the main or as lively as any dwarf hamster is likely to be.

[Christine Yule]

I have had many diabetic Dwarves and have one diabetic female now. If you haven't all ready, you should go to the following site to learn how to treat your diabetic ham. http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/HoneyHams/messages/

Diabetic hams need more than just sugar free food to manage their diabetes. If your hamsters are drinking huge amounts of water then they need urgent care. They will likely die in a few weeks if their sugar is not brought under control immediately.

But, don't despair. It is easier than it sounds. I make fenugreek tea with a wee bit of salt and that is the only "water" given to my diabetics. I can give you my recipe. I also have a recipe for a seed mix that contains sugar free foods but also foods that are low glycemic and are known to lower blood sugar levels. I can also give it to you, if you want.

I have had a couple of diabetics that would not respond to diet and fenugreek. There was nothing I could do for them. But, the majority have responded and I have been able to stabalize their blood sugar and they have lived long healthy lives.

Let me know if you would like my recipes. I have to run off now.

Hamstermama

[Pouchy]

Please send recipes as soon as possible via this forum s it will help other owners in this situation. Thanks.

[Christine Yule]

Here is the source of my recipe for seed mix for my Diabetic Dwarves. Actually, I feed ALL my dwarves this seed mix. "Bulk Barn" is a store that sells food from bins with scoops and you buy by weight. I don't know what kind of stores are in Europe. Maybe someone else can help you there.

Check out the article on Diabetic Hamsters on this site. You will have to reduce this seed mix recipe if you only have a couple of hamsters.

Seed mix source: http://www.geocities.com/knottyceltic/hamsSeedmix.html

I buy Fenugreek Seed capsules at a store that sells homeopathic medicine like vitamins etc.

My personal recipe for fenugreek tea is:

4 capsules (600 mg each) of Fenugreek Seed Powder
1 cup (250ml) of water
pinch of sea salt (look at ingredients to make sure sugar is not an ingredient added to salt)
another 1 cup (250 ml) of water

Put 1 cup of water in a small pan and open capsules and sprinkle powder over the water. Stir it up and heat water to boiling. Watch it carefully as it tends to foam up and boil over. As soon as it boils, take the pot off the heat and add the pinch of sea salt. Let this cool. Strain the tea through a wire strainer, I use a tea strainer, to remove jelly-like fenugreek.

Then add one more cup of water. Stir it up and store in a clean glass jar with a tight fitting lid. This must be kept in the refridgerator. This recipe is enough for about one week. It should smell sweet. If it begins to smell bad, then throw it out and make a new batch.

Do not try to put this in a water bottle. The tea turns rotten very quickly. Use a small ceramic or glass bowl and make sure you give fresh tea every day, washing out the bowl each time.

This should be the hamsters only source of water.

Test your hamsters sugar levels every couple of days until it tests negative for any sugar at all.

Once you have stabalized the sugar levels you can check their urine once a month or so.

[Pouchy]

Between them the dwarves drink approximately 30ml of water in a day and a half i.e about 15ml each. This is after as much of the sugar in their diet has been removed as possible. Compared to my Syrian hamster who barely has 5ml/day and similar for my gerbils it seems excessive. However, a website suggested that 12 - 15 ml/day was O.K. - unless I read it wrong.

A looking into a better diet but not living in a city or near any sort of wholefood shop etc and not wanting to pay excessive postage if it can be helped is making the search difficult.

[Christine Yule]

It is hard to say what is considered normal. Are they drinking more just because it is excessively hot? Who really knows for sure?

Since diabetes is such a common problem with Campbell's and Hybrids, I would recommend that you invest in some urine test strips. They are inexpensive and I would recommend that anyone with Campbell's test all their hamsters at least once every 3 months. I buy the test strips from the pharmacy or drug store. Here, we have to ask the pharmacist because they are not kept on the shelves. They are standard sugar level urine strips. You can explain to the pharmacist that you want to test for diabetes in hamsters and I am sure he/she will know what you need. I pay $8 for a package of 50 strips. You can test for sugar levels and also for ketones. But you can just test for sugar levels if you don't want to buy two different kinds of strips.

If your hamsters test negative for sugar in their urine then I wouldn't worry about changing to the seed mix recipe I gave you but if they have high sugar, I would recommend that you try to find a hamster food that is recommended for diabetics. That is where the HoneyHams group can help since it is international.

Hamstermama

[Pouchy]

I was hoping someone would know the correct amount of water that a dwarf hamster should consume in a day???

[Christine Yule]

I would say that it depends on the weather and activity level of the hamster.

However, if you are wondering about the drinking and diabetes, I would say that excesssive urination is a better indication of diabetes. It is not the only one, but the most noticeable. When one of my dwarves would start to urinate a lot, it was almost a guarantee that they had developed diabetes. When I say excessive, I mean a hamster could soak 25% of it's cage shavings in a few days. That is pretty hard to miss. Of course to pee that much a hamster needs to drink A LOT.

I don't want to nag but I hope you will decide to purchase the strips when you can. If a hamster develops diabetes, I beleive it is very, very painful. I have seen some of mine not respond to treatment and they are clearly in extreme distress. It is best caught as early as possible.

[Pouchy]

Is it O.K. to feed diabetic dwarfies peas, either yellow, dried green or split peas. Chickpeas are Ok and what about pearl barley.
Some of the info is contradictory depending where you look. A dowloaded pdf on Diabetic Rodent Mix suggested that various types of peas were OK but sweetcorn etc was not.

Have got the test sticks, now its how to administer the test. There is usually a puddle on one of the platforms in the morning but this won't tell if both are diabetic. Placing a strip on their 'wotsits' and giving a little push does not work with them. No urine is released.

[Pouchy]

If the dwarfs are in such distress you may be better off having them put down and relieve their suffering especially if they have not responded to any treatments.

[Pouchy]

It's official. The dwarfies are diabetic. The test strip went brown which means they have the highest level according to the chart. Strange really as they are such active furballs when they are awake.
So it's no sugars from now on. That is going to be difficult as oats, seeds of all kinds, in fact most foods fed to hammies apart from fresh veg which if fed can give them diarrhoea, contain starch ( a complex sugar) which is broken down to glucose in the gut.
I never did give them fruits but obviously the starches in the yellow flakes , corn and peas and the sugar in the raisins, carrots and turnips must have tipped them over the edge.

[Christine Yule]

I am so sorry that your hamsters tested positive. If they are both diabetic and both are still quite active then there is a good chance you can save them if you act quickly.

If they are urinating puddles like you mentioned then what is most urgent is to replace the salts they are losing by peeing so much. If you don't, they will certainly lose their electrolytes and go into shock and you will not be able to save them.

I add 1/4 teaspoon of baking soda and 1/4 teaspoon of sea salt to the two cups of fenugreek tea recipe. If you don't have the fenugreek tea then mix the baking soda and sea salt with 2 cups (.5 liters) of water. You can put that solution in a water bottle. It is very important that diabetics NEVER run out of water.

As for the seed mix diet, the one I gave you works for me. Hamsters eat grains and grain are carbohydrates so they do need to eat carbs. I don't know the exact science but I just know that the recipe I use works for mine.

Hope your hammies are okay.

[Christine Yule]

If the dwarfs are in such distress you may be better off having them put down and relieve their suffering especially if they have not responded to any treatments.

I think it is good to try the fenugreek tea, salt solution and give it and the diet a chance to work. Many have had success with it. It will probably take a month or two to start to bring their sugar down. Once it starts to come down, they will probably continue to respond. If it isn't going to work then they will die quickly. Usually, from shock from losing too many electrolytes. If a hamster goes into shock, it will probably die in a few hours.

[Pouchy]

Have tested the urine for sugar today and the diastix colour after 30 seconds is pale brown indicating sugar level is ++ which is a definite improvement fom two weeks ago when it was ++++ and counting.
Must have got something right so hopefully their sugar level will either stabilise now or go lower still. They have a salt wheel in their cage now to replace the salts lost through all that urination so for these two furries changing their diet seems to have been enough to get them onto the road to recovery. Famous last words...........

[Christine Yule]

That is fantastic news! :D :D :D If their sugar is dropping that fast then I would expect it to continue to drop. Of course, your goal is for them to test negative for sugar. All of my diabetics test negative. If I were you, I would wait for 6-8 weeks and if it doesn't drop anymore, try the fenugreek tea in addition to the diet. There are also certain fresh vegetables that are supposed to help lower blood sugar. You might want to look them up. I could try to find it for you, if you can't.

The salt wheel is a very good idea! 8)

[babyboos]

are you still providing a water bottle?
are you adding anything to the water?
baby electrolyte solution obtainable from every chemist can be added if you have trouble finding fenugreek etc, but even our local CO-OP and Spar stock this so hopefully you can get some
even just a pinch of salt and sugar added to the weater is a good temporary measure until more serious ingredients can be obtained for longterm use

[Pouchy]

Of course they have a water bottle but nothing added to the water as on the guidance it says not - to just to reduce the levels of none assimilatable sugars. They seem to be enjoying the salt wheel lick they have got and the millet is now given. Have also increased levels of proteins and fats via peanuts so if they cannot metabolise the sugars directly they can break down the stored fat into sugars instead. If they become obese then the diet will be modified. It was suggested they get oats so made up a mix with Jumbo oats but they don't like them. However the gerbs and the syrian do. They do still get chickpeas as these are sources of protein as well as some sugars and also Inositol which apparently is good for diabetics. Twice a week they get a cube a turnip each too and no carrot anymore.
To look at them and their activity level its difficult to realise they are diabetic. It's only the increased drinking that gives them away.

[Christine Yule]

Sounds like you are doing your research. Very nice. Since Vets have no suggestions on long term treatment of diabetes in hamsters, we have to do the research ourselves.

Do you have the sticks that test sugar and ketones in their urine. I have two different kinds of sticks. One for sugar levels and another for ketones. Some sticks are a combination of both. How are their levels now.

[babyboos]

I used electrolyte solution in all my water bottles longterm when dealing with diabetic hamsters

[Pouchy]

Your local coop might stock fenugreek but the one near where I live does not and neither does the large branch of Morrisons.

[Pouchy]

Just read that Fenugreek is used for breast enlargement. If the male dwarfies eat the seeds will they develop hamboobs! and want to have their gender reassigned...

[Pouchy]

Have bought some fenugreek seeds but the dwarfies aren't very interested. Its the strong smell that has put them off. Back to the drawing board. After testing the urine yesterday it is still around the ++ to +++ range.
Got very worried a couple of days ago as one of them was very listless and all hunched up and barely moving. Picked him up and put him close to the water bottle and he drank and was his usual bouncy self in a couple of a hours. He has had no problems since.
Assume this is one of the effect of diabetes. Strange really as water is always available and the bottle wasn't empty.
These hamsters are about 6-7 months old so could anybody tell me what I have to look forward to if the sugar levels do not drop any further

[Christine Yule]

I wouldn't expect the Dwarves to eat the seeds. The only treatment that I know of is with FENUGREEK TEA. That is tea made from ground up fenugreek seeds. I buy the ground up seed powder in capsule form and make tea from them. I find it makes the most potent tea. But you can just use the seeds you have and crush some up.

I measure one cup or 250ml of purified water in a small pot and then open two capsules(you can use about a small spoonful of crushed seeds) and sprinkle the powder in the water and stir.
Then I add 1/4 tsp. of baking soda and 1/4 tsp. of sea salt.
Then I turn on the heat and bring the water just to a boil. Watch it carefully as it boils up and makes a big mess if you are not watching it constantly.
Take it off the heat and let it cool down. I strain this through a seive or cloth. I mix the strained tea with one cup or 250 ml of purified water. (Makes 2 cups total.) Give them all they can drink in a non-metal bowl but change it everyday as the tea goes rancid at room temperature. Store the tea in a glass jar in the fridge. (I would recommend you add the salt and baking soda until their sugar levels are zero. You could omit it after you see they are urinating normal amounts of pee.)

I give you my recipe because it sounds like you hammies NEED it desperately. If one had a sleepy spell like you described, I would guess that hamster was on the verge of going into a coma when you found her/him. That hamster needed fluid and salt. Its sugar levels must still be way too high and if I were you I would assume that the sugar levels of the others are also critically high. Since your hamsters have turned Diabetic so young, their health is in danger and the sugar MUST come down ASAP in order for them to survive.


Give them only the tea to drink. No fresh water. You should notice their sugar levels start to drop within a week. Give them nothing but fenugreek tea to drink for the rest of their lives. As soon as you stop, they will start peeing loads again.

From my experience, I would say that if you cannot get a hamster's sugar levels down to zero it will not live long. It might range from a few days to a couple of months. There are many factors. When I could not get a hamster's sugar levels to zero, it died. :cry: BUT, all the hamsters that did get their sugar levels testing negative, lived long lives. :D I beleive all lived at least to 18 months. That's why I say, it is crucial for you to try the tea. All I know is that it has worked for me. :wink:

Let me know how the tea making goes.

[Pouchy]

The hams are now on the fenugreek tea diet! However it should be made known to all that once started the room where they live begins to smell like an Indian Curry House: the hams smell of fenugreek, the cage smells of fenugreek, their urine smells of fenugreek - need I go on. It's not unpleasant but can be overpowering if one is not used to it. The tea was made up as you suggested using a teaspoonful of crushed seeds to 500ml of water.

[Christine Yule]

Fenugreek smells very sweet. It is also used as an artificial maple flavoring as well as in Indian spice mixes.

Yes, it is a distinct smell and I find that my Dwarves don't particularly like drinking it when it is very strong. After you get their sugar levels down, you might want to try diluting the tea a bit by using half as much crushed fenugreek with the same amount of water. But, keep a close eye on their sugar levels to make sure it stays down at zero.

P.S. I checked the ages of my two remaining Diabetic Dwarves and Toula is 24 months old and D.B. is 31 months old. Long live the Diabetics! :D