How much do you give your adult Syrians - veggies?

[Holly]

I've gradually built up to giving our three veggies everyday - that said, they only get about two small pieces of a single vegetable each day. Am I giving them enough? Too much? My books all contradict each other - some seem to say lots of different veggies everyday is good - others say small amounts a couple of times a week! :? They've never had diarrhoea - I started very slowly. So far they seem to really like carrot, courgette, parsnip, red pepper, baby sweetcorn and broccoli. I haven't found a fruit they will eat yet - except dried fruit!

They also get a small piece of chicken twice a week and a small piece of boiled egg twice a week - along with the seeds in Harry Hamster food. Am I giving them enough protein? They also get a dog biscuit twice a week and the odd packaged treat ie yogurt drop, banana chip etc.

Is there anything else I should be including in their diet? They are around four months old and they seem active and healthy. Treacle and Custard (brothers) are a lot lighter and smaller than Mocha - I'm not sure if this is genetic or that Mocha is lazy!

[Christine Yule]

Your hamsters are very lucky to be so spoiled by you! They must be very happy to see you coming with the veggies! :D :D

If your hamsters poo isn't soft then I don't think you are giving them too many veggies. I give mine one large chunk of vegetable once a day, in the evening so they can munch on it through the night when they are most active. All the veggies you mentioned are ones that are good for them and mine love them too. Syrians don't need fresh fruit. All though mine get the occasional slice of apple. Dried fruit can cake in their teeth and get stuck in their pouches so the only dried fruit I give mine are dried banana slices.

I am sure they love the chicken and egg but Syrians don't need any more protein than a good hamster food mix provides. A high protein diet can cause kidney problems and damage their organs. The extra protein is stored in their organs and builds up over time and can cause early death. Really, only pregnant and nursing mothers and very elderly hamsters should be fed extra protein.

The dog biscuits are a good idea since they are very hard and will trim down your hamsters' teeth.

It sounds like your little "babies" have an excellent diet. The only thing I would mention is to make sure that most of their food is hard since they need to have their teeth worn down constantly or else they can become overgrown. I have noticed that the posts from folks in Europe feed their hamsters Harry Hamster Seed Mix(?) I don't feed my hamsters a seed mix. I have had trouble with their teeth becoming overgrown when I used to feed them seed mix. Now their main food is called an Extrusion. It is ground up seeds that are baked into hard nugget "cookies". I don't know if anything like that is available or popular in Europe. I live in Canada and that is the food I recommend to anyone who has Syrian hamsters here. Another benefit to Extrusion is the hamsters can't just pick out the tasty bits and leave the rest. Their diet is better balanced because they are eating all the grains mixed together.

Keep on spoiling those babies! I love to hear when hamsters are so well taken care of!
:D
Hamstermama

[Bailey-Benji]

Mine get veggies 2 or 3 times a week, as I read that too much could cause dihorrea. Its usually spinach, brocolli, carrot or sometimes a fruit - apple.

However, we always have tonnes of veggies in the house for my guinea pigs. Usually - trimmed green beans, brocolli, spinach, curly kale, parsley, green pepper, baby corn, carrots, celery, cauliflower, corn on the cob etc! (thats what we have in this week :P My mum spends a small fortune on it!)

We usually have various other fruit and veg too for us humans! :P

Are the veggies that I give to my guinea pigs okay for hamsters? I know to avoid citrus fruits, potatoes, onion, garlic and kidney beans. I just haven't really tried too many different veggies with the hamsters.

My hammies also get dog biscuits a couple of times a week (ASDA Hero) and I read somewhere that kitten food was recommended so I bought some last week and they have had it a couple of times and really enjoyed it! The kitten food is like tiny biscuits and is also made by ASDA : Complete tiger kitten with chicken, turkey and milk.

On top of that they also get budgie millet every couple of months.

In winter I bought them oats and they loved them too, especially when I made porridge (with water, I know that they are lactose intolerant) and put in on dog biscuits.

They get a commercial treat (just now its strawberry yoghurt drops) every couple of weeks as they are high in sugar.

Bailey's had dried banana slices and really enjoyed them, but I haven;t tried them on Benji yet as I didn't have him when Bailey tried them so I think I might get some more.

They also enjoy chicken, but I have never tried egg.


Edit: I also use Harry Hamster food, it contains hard bits and I've never had any problems with their teeth. :)

[Christine Yule]

Are the veggies that I give to my guinea pigs okay for hamsters? I know to avoid citrus fruits, potatoes, onion, garlic and kidney beans. I just haven't really tried too many different veggies with the hamsters.



Here is a link to a long list of safe and unsafe vegetables, fruits and wild flowers for Syrian hamsters. I don't know who wrote it and whether it is accurate or not but you can have a look at the lists. http://www.petwebsite.com/hamsters/hamster_food.htm

I wouldn't give any of my hamsters kitten or dog foods (excluding dog biscuits). Hamster food is formulated for hamsters and kitten food is for kittens. The protein content of dog and cat food is far higher than the 12%to 15% protein range for Syrians.

Those yoghurt drops sold for hamsters really aren't a good idea. The ingredients aren't really close to any food a hamster would eat in the wild. :wink:

Again, soft foods like porridge should only be fed to hamsters that don't have teeth. Dry uncooked oats are a great treat though!

A good quality hamster food should be the main food any hamster gets. It will give them the proper nutrition. Treats like bits of fresh vegetables can be given 2 or 3 times a week.

Hamstermama :)

[Jill Bayles]

Helpful information...thanks :idea:

[Holly]

That vegetables list is very helpful, many thanks.

It seems there's a great deal of controversy around feeding hamsters then. I read the feeding section in four books yesterday - and four different answers to how much veggies/fresh food should be fed! :roll:

One said to be really sparing and only feed them twice a week, one said 3-4 times a week, one said daily but small amounts and one said build up to giving a small bowlful of various veggies every day!!!!!

Christine - I thought hamsters - especially young growing ones - needed extra protein? In Hamsterlopaedia it states that hamsters can receive extra protein in the form of cooked chicken, ham, egg or mealworms several times a week. It does say that hamster food manufacturers have increased the protein content in their foods so that this isn't strictly necessary - but it says that they do it with their hammies and it certainly doesn't say it causes any harm.

Hamsterlopaedia also states that they feel they have larger, healthier litters since they started feeding daily vegetables/fresh foods as a supplement to hamster mix.

[Christine Yule]

Hi Holly,

I know what you mean about the differences in information about how much veggies should be fed hamsters. Perhaps the reason there is so much difference in opinion is because hamsters have the ability to adapt to various diets. For example, in the wild, how much and which fresh vegetables and greens a hamster would consume would depend on many factors like droughts and season changes. Animals have an amazing ability to adapt and I don't think hamsters are any different.

I think an important thing for hamster owners to consider is that in captivity, we should do our best to mimic the natural habitat of the species of hamster we are caring for. We do that by providing exercise, proper temperature, bedding, water and food of course. I have read a ton of information about diet and I believe that the advice given at the following link is the most reasonable. Read the portion under the last heading "Healthy Diet = Healthy Hamster."
http://www.hamsterific.com/Nutrition.cfm

Basically, stick to foods a Syrian hamster would eat in the wild. To me that means foods in their natural state, like fresh veggies, whole grains and mealworms. Personally, I avoid giving the dangerous foods like chocolate and raw kidney beans etc. but I don't get all stressed about making sure they have veggies every single day from a huge variety of different ones. Hamsters will be healthy being fed only a good quality hamster seed mix and clean water. The veggie and fruit tidbits are just tasty treats to make them happy!

Protein: Now this is a matter separate from the veggie and fruit issue. It is true that BREEDERS need to be conscience of the protein in the diets of their breeding and nursing females. I have found that I need to increase the protein level in FEMALES to about 24% in order for them to get pregnant. MALES remain on the regular 16% protein diet. I keep the FEMALES on the 24% protein food from their own birth until they have weaned their last litter. Usually, at about 14 months of age. After that, they are switched to the lower protein food that is about 16 % protein for the rest of their life. It is true that pups can be given extra bits of protein of lean cooked chicken or boiled egg. This does make them grow faster BUT there is research that suggests that a high protein diet causes kidney and liver damage earlier in their life. Check out this link. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/quer ... t=Abstract (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=7162130&dopt=Abstract)

Since hamsters are used in lab experimentation there are a lot of studies out there and perhaps different conclusions can be made. My own decisions have been influenced by my experience with the hundreds of hamsters I have raised. I have never had a MALE Syrian hamster suffer from kidney disease. However, about half of all my Syrian females used for breeding have developed kidney disease. Whether this has been caused by the higher protein diet they need to breed or the stress of pregnancy on their kidneys, I can't say. But for now, I have concluded that I agree with the 16% protein content of most quality hamster foods. I feel that PET HAMSTERS that are NOT used for breeding do not really need protein added to their diets to be healthy. Too much MAY be harmful.


All that having been said, if I am having an egg for breakfast and one of my babies wanders over to my plate, he gets a bite or two! :wink:

Hamstermama

[Holly]

I think the point about hamsters being amazingly good at adapting to different diets is a good one - you only have to look at how fantastically they've adapted to captivity and being bred in captivity. If all the pet hamsters around today really do descend from three wild ones captured in 1930 - with maybe a couple of other wild ones thrown into the mix decades later - then they certainly are incredibly adaptable!

I think I'm going to continue giving them their fresh veggie portion each night - when I compare it, volume wise, to the amount of hamster mix they are eating it really is a tiny portion and they seem to look forward to it so much. They've never had diarrhoea and seem to do well on it. On the other hand I think ours are perhaps getting too much extra protein - they are almost full grown now so I think I'll cut the chicken and egg down to about once a week instead.

I have never had a MALE Syrian hamster suffer from kidney disease. However, about half of all my Syrian females used for breeding have developed kidney disease. Whether this has been caused by the higher protein diet they need to breed or the stress of pregnancy on their kidneys, I can't say.


This is a bit worrying. I'm aware that pregnancy puts an enormous strain on the organs of all mammals - humans included - and can affect health/life expectancy in later life. What are the symptoms of kidney disease in hamsters? Does anyone have a male hamster (or female hamster that hasn't had a litter) develop kidney disease?

Intersting stuff - it seesm the conflicting book advice is only the beginning.....

Thanks for taking the time to write all of this down, Christine.

[Christine Yule]

Hi again Holly,

I think if I answer your kidney disease question, I should put it under the Health issues subject on this forum.

I will post it there for you.

Hamstermama

[Bailey-Benji]

Here is a link to a long list of safe and unsafe vegetables, fruits and wild flowers for Syrian hamsters. I don't know who wrote it and whether it is accurate or not but you can have a look at the lists. http://www.petwebsite.com/hamsters/hamster_food.htm

I wouldn't give any of my hamsters kitten or dog foods (excluding dog biscuits). Hamster food is formulated for hamsters and kitten food is for kittens. The protein content of dog and cat food is far higher than the 12%to 15% protein range for Syrians.

Those yoghurt drops sold for hamsters really aren't a good idea. The ingredients aren't really close to any food a hamster would eat in the wild. :wink:

Again, soft foods like porridge should only be fed to hamsters that don't have teeth. Dry uncooked oats are a great treat though!

A good quality hamster food should be the main food any hamster gets. It will give them the proper nutrition. Treats like bits of fresh vegetables can be given 2 or 3 times a week.

Hamstermama :)

Thanks for the link!

I don't give dog food, however they have had the kitten food once or twice (like a pinch of it added to their food.) The kitten food and dog biscuits (both made by asda) have really similar ingredients. If they don't benefit from them, then I won't give them any more kitten food :)

I know the yoghurt drops are not healthy, thats why they only get one every couple of weeks (usually longer when I forget :P) They usually have a nibble, then throw the rest away anyway.

They don't get porridge often, I've only given it to them once, possibly twice. But they do get a pinch of dry uncooked oats added to their food a couple of times a week.

Thanks for your help :)

[Christine Yule]

I wish I knew how to make the quote in the blue box thing...!

Anyway, If your hamster doesn't eat those yoghurt drops, he's a pretty smart hamster!!!

It sounds like you are doing a great job of taking care of your hammy!

Hamstermama

[Bailey-Benji]

I wish I knew how to make the quote in the blue box thing...!

Anyway, If your hamster doesn't eat those yoghurt drops, he's a pretty smart hamster!!!

It sounds like you are doing a great job of taking care of your hammy!

Hamstermama

Thanks :D

In the top right hand corner of every post there is a small box that says "quote", this takes you to the reply page with the quote and you just add on what you want to say :D

P.S I have 2 hammies, a 18 month old female - Bailey (you helped me with her colour and although its not 100% it seems most likely taht she is a yellow banded) and 8ish month old Benji (video of him being a menace in the Behaviour board :D )

[SnuggleHam]

This was very informative! :)

[Dollheart]

I have puzzled as to why my 2 hamsters refuse to sample the fruit/veg I have tried to tempt them with.

Having throughly read through safe lists and starting them with tiny portions, they act as though fruit + veg doesn't exist.

the only thing they have ever eaten was small pieces of dried banana slices :/

*brain explodes*

xlaniex

[Christine Yule]

Some hamsters like veggies and fruit more than others. :roll: Mine LOVE dried banana too! :D It might take some time for them to start to like veggies but don't worry. They don't need fresh food to be healthy. If they have an excellent quality dry food and fresh water, those are the essentials.

I would keep trying little bits of different kinds of veggies and fruit to see if there are any kinds that become favorites. Try bitter veggies too. Some hamsters prefer bitter greens to sweet fruit. :?

[Spuds Mum]

I have noticed that the posts from folks in Europe feed their hamsters Harry Hamster Seed Mix(?) I don't feed my hamsters a seed mix. I have had trouble with their teeth becoming overgrown when I used to feed them seed mix. Now their main food is called an Extrusion. It is ground up seeds that are baked into hard nugget "cookies". I don't know if anything like that is available or popular in Europe.

Ive found that it is so hard to find an extrusion food over in England Christine. I have finally found one by searching the internet but had to travel 130 miles round trip to get it to try! I have one hamster who was only eating his sunflower seeds and peanuts,out of his hamster mix, everything else was just thrown - so I searched for an extrusion and found Pascoes Hamster Health extrusion food. He is still on early days of having this exclusively and until he accepts it readily, we are feeding him no extra treats etc. so at the moment he is very unhappy with us!

[Christine Yule]

I find it kind of odd that Extrusion food for Hamsters isn't a big hit in the Hamster Mecca of the World (the U.K.)

It has been readily available in Canada for quite some time. Hagen distributes it. I am a fervent advocate for it and since it is available at all pet stores, most people buy it and only give the gourmet seed mix as a treat.

The reason I recommend it is because I have trouble with the teeth of my Syrians over growing if they only are fed seed mixes. I still constantly check their teeth every few days to make sure they are even and not getting so long that they interfer with their eating. I don't know why it doesn't seem to be a problem in the U.K. :?

[Jane]

I've never heard (or very rarely) heard of hamsters having overgrown teeth from being on a mix..however, if good quality pellets were available over here I think my hamsters would have them..afterall, I would never feed my piggies a mix yet I feed my hamsters one. :roll:

[Spuds Mum]

Hi Jane - well I saw the Pascoes extrusion on a recommendation site - apparently it is made (I think) in Driffield Yorks but I couldnt find anywhere in Yorkshire that sold it!
My local petstore sells other Pascoe mixes and when I asked said they could get some in but only in bulk and as it wasnt likely to sell they wouldn't do so!
Are you going to the Rotherham show? If so and you are interested in what it is like I am more than happy to bring you a sample to test your guys on!

The analysis can be found on the firms website, but though you can order dog/cat food online not hamsters bah!
http://www.pascoes.co.uk/hamster.php

[souffle]

I'm not sure... we have never had teeth trouble either and having seen how much enjoyment the little guys get out of rifling through the food bowl and choosing something they fancy each time they feed I can't imagine that the compound food would be so interesting. It seems to me like having 'complan' cardboard food every day! Full of nutrition but very boring. Animals seem to instinctively eat a balanced diet and if they are happy and healthy I will stick with the seed mix which seems healthier and more natural for our hamsters. They love to shell the seeds and peanuts. I think that Babyboos uses the extrusion food and likes it. Perhaps a bit mixed in would be good though to see if they choose to eat it then you would know if they like it. I'm sure it is nutritionally excellent as it is designed for easy maintenance of laboratory animals.

[Christine Yule]

I was concerned that it tasted like cardboard to the hamsters, too. But, I make sure I buy it fresh and keep it in an airtight container and it smells quite nice.

Once a week I will sprinkle in the cage a tablespoon of seed mix but the hamsters don't seem very excited about it. They eventually gather some of it up and store it in their corner. So, that tells me that they don't seem deprived.

Another reason I like to recommend the extrusion is because here there are lots of hamster seed mixes that are little more than sunflower seeds and huge chunks of corn with some rabbit pellets mixed in. A very poor choice. If I can recommend the extrusion mix, I know the hamster will be getting a good diet. It is difficult to describe a "good quality" seed mix to someone.

But, absolutely an excellent quality seed mix is a fine choice too.

[babyboos]

less waste and a whole mix of flavours in every bite
it certainly has its advantages
I always supplement too so a best of both world scenario really

[Spuds Mum]

less waste and a whole mix of flavours in every bite
it certainly has its advantages
I always supplement too so a best of both world scenario really

I think as long as the hamster gets occasional other foods too, as Babyboos says, it has the best of both worlds. My fussy eater, Manny, who we are feeding extrusion food to at the moment, wasn't happy without his sunflower seeds for the first day or two but is now happily munching on the extrusion. the reason we changed is that he is soo small, and we think its because he only eats the sunflower seeds and peanuts from his seed mix.

:oops: PS - I don't recommend this to anyone else - but in the interest of the HC community I tried one - and they are nice and crunchy - the ones we got taste of apples!!!!!!! :oops:

[Christine Yule]

Apples! Don't tell my hamsters you can get some that taste like apples! :lol:

Incidently, you were brave enough to say that you tasted one but I wasn't. I mean, I tasted one; chewed it once or twice and spit it out, but I wasn't brave enough to admit it to the world! But, since you have revealed your secret, I will join you and admit it too. "I have tasted my hamsters' extrusion and it doesn't taste that bad." :lol:

[Spuds Mum]

Maybe we should set up a 'hamster food eaters anonymous' support group! :lol:
Mind you I can honestly say that I won't be eating it on a regular basis!

[Christine Yule]

Maybe we should set up a 'hamster food eaters anonymous' support group! :lol:
Mind you I can honestly say that I won't be eating it on a regular basis!

I think it just shows how truly DEDICATED we are to being the best hamster moms! Of course, others might prefer to use the word BONKERS! :lol:

[Jane]

I've tried various chunks from my hamsters food, guinea pig pellets, chicken food :oops:, dry cat food, dog biscuits..the list goes on :lol: haha I'm a weirdo but they really don't taste that bad.

[Spuds Mum]

OMG :!: we are on a confession role here tonight aren't we? :lol: Maybe I am not quite as weird as I thought I was!! (then again maybe I am)

[souffle]

Yep I've tried it all too :oops: Dog food, cat food, hammie food though I draw the line at mealworms!

[agatecrystal]

In response, fruit and veg is reccomended to be given 2-3 times a week and egg is VERY high in protein and so should only be given once a week and be a VERY small amount.