Can anyone help me with color

[Butterbean]

For the longest time we thought she was a copper banded syrian because she is pretty identical to one... http://www.hamsters-uk.org/modules.php? ... =70&page=1 (http://www.hamsters-uk.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=Sections&file=index&req=viewarticle&artid=70&page=1)

Problem is she doesn't have red eyes. Anyone?

Here are her pics... http://s77.photobucket.com/albums/j61/f ... 20Hamster/ (http://s77.photobucket.com/albums/j61/fariesNthings/My%20Hamster/)

We thought perhaps she was a caramel mink, then also sable was suggested, but identical to that copper banded... so.. any idea?

[SnuggleHam]

Give people time to respond, I'm sure there is someone here who has an idea. I read your thread but unfortunately I'm not an expert and don't feel I should be offering any suggestions. Thus i didn't respond at first. However there is an article on syrian hamster colors.

http://www.hamstercentral.com/user.php?action=viewArticle&a=31

Perhaps it can give you an idea. Your hamster looks like a banded cream to me, but it does have copper type tint to it thats for sure. :)

[Butterbean]

I still think she is copper... her ears are grey at the tips, she has the same hair color pretty much underneath, they say that their eyes are garnet not red, and in the odd pic her eyes do look like they turn a dark red. I have to do a better test with a flashlight etc. I don't notice any flash cheeks.

The only thing is that she has a white belly, but she is identical to that image, but her band is perfect.

She looks like none of those, just looks like this one: http://www.hamsters-uk.org/modules.php? ... =70&page=1 (http://www.hamsters-uk.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=Sections&file=index&req=viewarticle&artid=70&page=1) but with the perfect band like I said.

[souffle]

Where did your hamster come from Butterbean. Coppers are very, very uncommon and the chances of one coming up in a pet shop are very rare. They need specific breeding and would not come up in a random mating really and a breeder would be unlikely to send a copper to the pet market as it would be kept for breeding!. If you got her from a breeder you would have been told the colour. Her belly is white because of the band which is indeed a nice band. Looking closely I feel I can see a trace of cheek flashes and I think she is cinnamon myself. Sometimes the slate grey undercoat is not very easy to see. Blow the fur and see if there is any darker at the roots in any parts. She is long haired. Is there any ticking on the ends of the coat anywhere. The cheek flashes on a cinny are a dark brown and not that obvious. She could be a honey or a very dark, red eyed cream as I have seen them this dark. I would say her eyes are in fact dark red. She looks like our cinnamon Bailey in eye and coat colour.

[suga]

A very pretty hamster for sure. The coat is soooo glossy

[Butterbean]

I know they are rare and uncommon but all her markings etc suggest that, and no it's not cinnamon, her coloring isn't that dark.

I don't know where she came from, I rescued her. She was to be snake food, and was put in a freezer for 18 hours and survived that and being in a cage with a shedding snake, so where she came from I have no idea.

She has no tick flashing and her fur when I blow on it or look into it is all the same color as her top coat.
I know she has a band on her belly but coppers can have that marking, and no there is no ticking anywhere.

She definatly is not a cream, she is too coppery.
No I know she isn't honey either the coloring isn't right she looks identical to that image in the copper pic.. literally.

When I look at her I don't notice flash cheek, if it is there it's very minimal, I was looking at her yesturday and I didn't really notice any markings lik that. She is identical to the copper in that hamsters-uk. org site.

[souffle]

Sometimes it can be difficult to pinpoint an exact colour as a hamster like all animals can be a bit of a mix and not be a pure bred animal for that colour however if you want to call her copper as you feel that is her colour then she is a Long haired copper banded :lol:

[Butterbean]

Actually she is short-haired hehe she does have long bits here and there and has a "skirt" but she doesn't really have that much long haired.

From all the research i've done on mutations, hybirds etc, that's the only plausible color she could be... nothing else matches her but that.

She's my babe, a riot in her ball.. hehehe.. she even had her own theme songs. :D

[pophammy]

Looking at the pictures she is most definitely a longhaired. The female longhaired Syrian has a more 'fluffy' coat than actually long haired coat. They also often have longer tufts behind the ears, on the scent glands and usually have a small 'mini skirt' at the back! I would agree with souffle on her colour, and say that she is probably a cinnamon. Just by getting one picture that looks very like your hammy does not necessarilly mean that your hamster is that colour. There is quite a range of different shades for each colour, e.g. you can get pale, almost white creams up to very dark orangey ones, but they are all classified as cream. I have been showing hams for quite a while now and have never seen copper before so it is very unlikely that your ham is a copper. Copper has to be bred from rust, which is another very rare colour.

[Butterbean]

She definatly is not a cinnamon she is way too light.
Ya your right with the long-haired bit, when I think of long-haired I think about loooong hair....

I know how coppers are bred, i've done all my research on the colors, markings etc, I don't think I could come across anymore info on coppers.

Considering I don't know where she came from originally i'm still sticking with copper, all the markings etc of what coppers have she has, cream is too light of a color, cinnamon she is not. The color isn't right, nor are the markings etc, plus when i blow on her hair, she has the copper colors not grey or cream. I know they are rare to come across, but I've also known someone who had actually purchased a copper in a petstore without realizing it so it's possible, rare but possible. ;)

I think the only way is if someone found me a pic that looked like buttebean besides the information on flash cheeks, no breast band etc.... then I'd consider it.. lol.

But so far this is the only color so far that I've been able to find and believe me i've been through every single color there is and nothng with the description comes close.

For all I know since she is the color of copper/rust she could be rust as well but I don't know how old she is, when she came to me she was adult a year or so?

Anyone have any good rust pics to show me?

Cinnamins also have brown flash cheeks which butts doesn't and her ear tips are grey not brown. Wink :wink:

[Thames Valley Rodents]

chances of one coming up in a pet shop are very rare

coming accross an intentionally bred copper in a shop is slim but dont forget that many pet shop hamsters are highly inbred so that makes the chance or seeing recessives statistically more likely so really, its not that suprising. I have seen numerous photos of Butterbean and i have no doubts at all that she is a copper.
Rust (one of the consituent colours of a copper) is rare as has been stated but I have bred several by chance and took in two rust rescues last year so they are about.
I have heard people suggesting that she is a sable, a cinnmamon and even a cream...

She is a copper.

Kat x

[babyboos]

Sorry guys I would say she is a Cream they do come this dark and very pretty they are too. Red eyed creams are lighter than Black eyed, which can be a beautiful rich colour almost Cinnamon, and there is certainly some other recessives in there which will affect her coat and ears to some extent. I have seen Black eyed creams with one Cinnamon come up this lovely deep shade, they make great starting blocks for Sable and Mink lines.
As one of the only breeders I know anymore of Copper hamsters I would hope I can speak with some authority
And yes sure looks longhaired too - females are not as long as males, due to the lower levels of testosterone.
It is amazing how hard it is to breed Copper even with the right parents, and even Copper to Copper mating. It isn't just rarity of the colours involved (as many have pointed out Rust) but actually getting these genes to combine in a robust fashion and produce viable offspring.
Bottom line she is a lovely hamster and you have no way of saying what her actual gene combination is, even breeding her (which I strongly discourage, especially given that her background is unknown) you wont find out what colour she is unless you do a bit of inbreeding with a pure Golden or other pure single gene coloured male.
Getting hold of one of these is very hard indeed, especially if you are not part of a good hamster club.
Sadly nobody can say she is definitely Copper sorry, and if it makes you appreciate her more as a pet then you could call her anything you want.

[SnuggleHam]

Bottom line she is a lovely hamster and you have no way of saying what her actual gene combination is.

I have to agree with Babyoos, I think the only way we can officially say what color your ham really is, is to know the genes of the parents. Otherwise we can only speculate. :)

[Butterbean]

I'm going to have to stick with Kat, she knows her hammies... I don't know the genetics, so I can only go with what I see and know...

Yes she is a cutie lol, waiting for her to wake up so she can have her ball run. ;)

She isn't a cream... and the cinnamon she doesn't have the flash cheeks.

But we can only go with what we know- and since I know what she looks like lol and from all the research and what other breeders have told me I am still sticking with Copper, as everything that she has and doesn't have marking wise is identical....

She is a wonderful loving hamster, if I knew where she was then I'd follow up on it... But From what people have seen of her... that's what I am sticking with, since I haven't found anything to tell me different. Gotta go with the information I know. I wish I was the one that purchased her at a young age, then I'd likely know- I doubt she came from a breeder as in Ontario they are like I mentioned - impossible to find....

But she is lovely, trustworthy, and very very lucky to be alive. So really that's just how I see her. ;) It's hard for anyone else to say from pictures what I see everyday and nite and can get an up close look on what she looks like, markings, fur etc.... so right now they all point in that direction.....

Your right it is hard to say really truthfully, because we don't know who her parents are... but that is what she is, rare, yes... but perhaps I've just been lucky that she came into my life. she'd be snake food otherwise.

[souffle]

A hamster looks different in different lights and under flash. You are in Canada, we are in the UK and as Babyboos said if you value her more if she is a copper then that is great. She is, like all hamsters a beautiful and unique individual which you treasure just as we all treasure our babies from the runty deformed ugly little one to the top winning best in show. It is unfair to ask for peoples opinions on a colour if you have already made your mind up. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and we, as breeders and as people who are showing hamsters in the UK currently have given you ours which you may consider as you wish.
At the end of the day no-one can say for sure as no-one knows her exact breeding. If she is genetically a copper she is an extremely rare chance genetic combination. You should not breed her as she is way too old anyway. Just enjoy her for her unique beauty.

[Butterbean]

You are right... I do value everyones opinon.


She is a unique, sweet girl, and without knowing what she was like as a young ham it's hard to tell if this is her 100% color, after researching more and checking her out closely this is the only thing I can come up with just from me looking at her and all the other colors.

If I have any more questions I will post them...
Thank you for those who gave me their opinons, I appreciate it. :wink:

[babyboos]

She is a lucky lady given her history and that makes her far more special in every sense no matter what colour she is. Even knowing what she looked like as a youngster would not help you, you would need to know her parents and grand parents and even great grandparents on both sides - I have even seen recessives carry from further back than this, so there could still be some potential uncertainty. We love hamster genetics and their way of sometimes ignoring laws of inheritance.

[Butterbean]

Exactly.... :) I just changed her bin, so she is running around.. lol I changed it around so right now she is sitting in her "green chair" and I just gave her a small piece of whole wheat bread as her treat.