Chinese - social or solitary?

[Emma]

Babyboos mentioned keeping different species solo/in groups on the cage types thread, I thought I'd start a separate thread for this question.



Should Chinese hamsters be kept solitary or in pairs/groups?



I've never kept any myself, they are next on my "list" after I sort my new Syrian(s). I've read differing opinions on the subject. I know many keepers have them in pairs and groups with no more trouble than the other dwarf species - your're always going to get the odd one who prefers to be alone. But other sources I've read have stated that there is a higher incidence of cagemate violence with Chinese, and even that they really should be kept solitarily. A veterinary textbook states that a solo Chinese does not have a shortened lifespan compared with one that lives in a group, as is the case with the Phodopus species supposedly. Implying that this is evidence that being solitary is fine for Chinese.



Does anyone have any opinions on this subject?



Em x

[babyboos]

Hi Emma - good question!

I have had mixed success with Chinese breeding and currently have one pair and one colony, no singles, but you never know with these guys they can be so close with their cage mates one minute and then suddenly...

I know some well established breeders who do treat them as Syrians and others like myself who try and let them live in social groupings.

I find them a most intriguing species and have NEVER EVER been bitten by a Chinese hamster. They have beautiful short, soft, shiny coats and love to run around in your hands for hours!

The best tips I can give you are: a) get the absolutely biggest enclosure you possibly can, preferably not a wire cage and,

b) if getting them to breed get an unrelated pair, if not get two boys.For a really good summary of the Chinese Hamster please check out this link:

http://www.napak.com/chinese_hamster.html

Paul Owen ([email protected]) has covered all the bases I think so there really isn't much to add but if you have any questions please don't hesitate to ask and I will do my best to give some advice. Hopefully some more Chinese owners will join the forum soon too.

[Emma]

That's a really comprehensive article Morag thanks. Chinese do not seem to be a very popular species at the moment - I think I've come across more Robo owners than Chinese.

[babyboos]

I agree, although a couple of years ago I would have said the opposite. Chinese hamsters were really taking off more in the specialised pet market, here, and in the USA. Roborovski Dwarves were a lot more expensive than Chinese hamsters back then and although in Pets at Home (largest UK pet superstore) for example they still are slightly, I have seen them increasingly in local petshops for the same price as all other hamsters. Indeed to see either species in a local pet shop at all was totally unheard of up until quite recently. One reason I can think of straight away therefore is supply - have you noticed how few Chinese hamsters there are actually for sale in pet stores just now :?: There has not been a Chinese hamster in any Pets at Home near me in a 75 mile radius for months now, but always at least one tank full of Roborovski Dwarves. Every time I have been in there has hardly even been a Syrian hamster, which does worry me as how many Roborovski Dwarves are being bought by totally unsuitable individuals just because they are all that is there :(

I have had countless contact from people who have bought two "same sex" Roborovski Dwarves and then had litter after litter of babies. I am the first to admit they are not the easiest to sex to an untrained eye, Chinese hamsters on the other hand are rather more obvious!!!

One other attraction people seem to mention is their average 3 - 3.5 year life span, being the longest lived of the dwarf species, although I know from experience some Chinese hamsters can live longer, this just isn't as widely advertised. Chinese hamsters seem to have gained a bit of a reputation as nippers which is very strange as I have never ever been bitten by one, but then the same is true for my Roborovski Dwarves. Previous discussions on this aspect seem to blame sustained inbreeding. This is something I am totally against in all my hamster species but I do appreciate there can be positive aspects when done in experienced hands. When just done to avoid investing in new unrelated breeding stock, by individuals just interested in producing babies it can really emphasis any negative qualities in all species. :evil:

But I think we should leave discussions on inbreeding for another day and keep this thread to discussing Chinese hamsters, and leave it that anyone interested in obtaining some Chinese hamsters tries as far as possible to ensure they are from unrelated parents :?

[SnuggleHam]

I can't say that over here in the US I have ever seen a Roborovski or Chinese hamster.. or a Campbell’s, I have only ever seen the Siberian hamster which is technically supposed to be a Winter White but in most cases I think they are Campbell’s labelled wrong and I've only ever seen them with their natural coloration.



The only speciality rodent I see are Panda Bear hamsters and Black Bear hamsters which is lame because they charge 10 dollars more for these than just a regular Syrian.



I use to see pet stores selling Teddy Bear hamsters for more, but generally I think they are just charging a basic price for them now.

[babyboos]

That is stil not unusual in many areas sadly, in fact in some American States they are even banned :( Coincidently I just received an email today from a guy in Northern Ireland looking for some Chinese as he has never seen any in his country either.

It is sad that pet shops get away with charging more for different colours of Syrian too by giving them fancy names - Black Bear, Teddy, Panda, Dalmation etc are all just regular Syrians really. They are all directly descended from their wild cousins in Syria :evil:

You are lucky to have Winter Whites in your stores, they are something we don't see very often here in the UK widespread commercially available, but when they do appear in pet stores they are often just classed as Russian Hamsters and clumped together with Campbell's Russian Dwarves :twisted:

[SnuggleHam]

No that’s the thing... the only dwarfs I ever see are ones they call Siberian hamsters, Siberian is another name used for the winter white, but these "Siberians" I see in the pet store aren’t winter whites they are Campbell’s named wrong.



I think anyway…

[Emma]

A pet concession in a large garden centre near me usually has Chinese when I go in. They also stock WWs but not Campbell's. Always the exception to the rule! I asked them where they got their stock from (trying to ascertain if there was a proper breeder in the area, or if it was mostly unplanned pregnancies coming back - apparently some pet shops up to 80% of their stock is from unplanned pregnancies of their own sales!) but noone who was there knew :roll:



I'd love to hear from more pet owners as to how sociable their Chinese hams are. So far in my very unscientific and small survey, it seems that females will only just about tolerate a male most of the time, and almost never tolerate another female past a few months of age. Like you suggested babyboos people have more success with boys paired together, but still not as much as with the phodopus species.



Wouldn't it be nice if the hams could tell us what they'd prefer!



I think if I was looking to get Chinese just as pets, I'd go with your suggestion of a male pair, and make sure I had a spare cage on hand. Or look for a female who was already alone.

[SnuggleHam]

I think my the Hamster Central Chinese hamster section could use some more info about them...

[babyboos]

Hopefully some Chinese owners will come by and tell us of their adventures soon. Come on guys - don't be shy :!: :oops: :!:

Hi,

I own 2 female chinese dwarf hamsters. I have recently had problems with them, with one of the pair picking on the other. However under close supervision yesterday they did not fight once throughout the day and were happily snuggled up to each other in their bedding. However as soon as I turned the light out the fighting began and squealing, to the point that I separated them last night as I couldn't sleep. :cry: I am going to put them back with each other this morning and see what happens.

So I haven't come to a conclusion yet as to whether they should be kept separately or on their own...Luckily I have a spare tank if everything goes wrong. :? I will post another reply once I have made the choice between solitary or together!

With chinese hamsters biting Ive never had one bite me, only a nibble on a nail, it doesn't hurt.

:)

[Emma]

Hi Emz welcome to Hamster Central.



Could I ask how old your girls are, and how long they've been together - are they littermates?



In my experience of fighting hamsters (Campbell's) once they decided they weren't living together that was it, sadly. Fingers crossed giving your two their last chance together, let us know how it goes.



Emma x

[babyboos]

Hi Emz :)

hope you register as a member soon :?: :!:



Sorry to hear about your girls falling out :cry:

This can happen at maturity - how old are they :?:



I have seen this behaviour exhibited in Roborovski and Russian Dwarves (Winter White and Campbell's) before so I think it is just a sadly potential occurence when keeping hamsters in captivity :(

You can try a bigger enclosure with lots of hidey holes for them to sleep and play in, and two sets of everything - wheel, water bottle, food dishes etc.

If you don't have this option you can try completly cleaning out their current enclosure and then putting the hamster being picked on in it for a first for a few hours and then trying to introduce the other. If they fight then take her back out leaving the first hamster in overnight and try again the next morning. This may, or may not work, unfortunately there are no gaurantees If you see the squabbling continue splitting them is the only real option I am afraid as they will not stop until one is dead and the other possibly badly injured. The only other way to get them to live together would involve discussing with your vet if he would consider neutering one or both of them and this is not something commonly undertaken, due to their size and the potential for complications. And even then they may still fight :!:

I have heard of breeders using Vick's VapoRub to dab on hamsters when trying to introduce them together as it masks their natural scent. It is not something I have ever tried personally so I cannot vouch for its success but unless someone can think of anything toxic in the substance then you may want to consider trying this. A tiny bit should be enough I would have thought as it is quite potent.

[amnerisryn]

At the moment I only have Tinklepaugh but at the time that I adopted him he was being housed with a littermate (I think the other was a littermate, knowing my PetsMart it could have been a mate for all they know :roll: ). I had observed them for about 30 minutes prior to purchasing and they would chase each other around for a bit then separate themselves into opposite corners and groom for a bit, then one would be off after the other and they would run all over the place but I didn't see them nipping or biting so I think they were playing :?:. I chose Tinky because he was the underdog, so to speak and really he was the only one the PetsMart employee could catch. :P



I've noticed rather territorial/diva-ish behavior from him: he doesn't like me messing with his food stash (heaven forbid I clean it out, he sqeals at me if I do) and he has a friendly (I think) rivalry with my betta Lutador and my cat Max for my attention but if Lutador or Max is getting attention from me or my roommates Tinky will make a rukus to get attention.



In a couple of months I'll be able to let you know more about the group housing situation. Thanks in part to a *not-so-great* local pet store owner (has too many animals for one person to take care of adequately, I voluntarily come in and clean the hammies, rabbits, and degu (so would get a degu if we had an exotic vet within driving distance) for him) he let me know one of his regular hamster breeders has to give up her five Chinese and I've been in contact with her about taking some or all of them. :arrow: If I take any/all of them I'll definately be driving down to her place to get them so if anyone happens to have suggestions for stress-free/reduced stress long distance transportation, I'd be most appreciative of any tips/suggestions/hints/personal experiences.



Tinky has nipped me several times but usually that's because I've had him out of his cage too long or my hand smells like something (usually soap, though I just switched to unsented so it's not so bad anymore--country apple though, stay away from the teeth end :wink: ). His nippage tends to occur if he's feeling insecure--he hears a noise on the TV or my computer or if one of my roomies makes a sudden move or I move around a lot with him in my hands. I've also had him nip me from jealousy after playing with Max.



I'll keep you posted on the solitary v. group question and do some more behavior observations (hopefully with more than one that will be an easier job!).

[babyboos]

Please do I would love to compare findings with a fellow Chinese hamster owner.

[Amyst]

I used to have a pair of male Chinese, and they never fought :D They were so sweet!

[littlemissdwarfhamster]

I have found that over the years I have worked with the species there has been a definate improvement in temperament.



I treid to breed a few years back, but it just ended up in a blood bath with the female trying to eat the male. But I currently have a successful breeding pair - I got these from the same person that I got the other off too!



The ones i see at work are more tolerant too. I had three girls who had babies and all lived together great. I took about the male babies so it was 9 females in one cage. Over time we have a few escapees and we ended up with 15 females in that cage without any problems at all. All slept together and ived in total harmony.



We have just had a pair of males fall out though, one is in a right state. So although the agression is still there, it seems much less than it used to be.

[mimosaurus]

Gypsy Bean, my chinese hamster was "rescued" from someone who didn't want her anymore. The person who kept her before got her first, then two more chinese hamsters a few months later. Both were male and she kept them all in the same cage for a while (I have no idea why she was keeping males and females in the same cage, although I have heard that chinese hamsters aren't especially fertile). The two boys fought from the beginning, so she seperated one of them into a different cage, and Gypsy Bean lived with the other boy for about three months, apparently happily.



One day the boy just attacked Gypsy Bean out of the blue, so I've been told. She was apparently bleeding quite badly, and they were seperated.



I've always heard that it's the female chinese hamsters who are aggressive, but I'm not sure after that. I guess it's just a hit and miss thing - but I would say that if one can suddenly attack the other after three months of living happily together, I'm not sure if it's worth the risk!

[ashleanne]

In northern ireland, the pet store Jollyes always have chinese hamsters in stock for some reason. I recently bought a little chinese female only to find out that her top tooth had curled around and that it was growing into her top gum and she had a bottom tooth missing. She cant really eat normal food and her teeth must have been overgrown and causing her pain for quite some time. I dread to think who is breeding these hamsters, as I know that a responsible breeder would have given their babies a health check before letting them go. Im only glad that candy ended up with me and not as a childs pet as they probably wouldnt have noticed and she may have starved to death and would have been in so much pain. She still has to get her teeth clipped as they grow at an angle and are very deformed, she tolerates it very well. This is one of my reasons why I wont be buying rodents from petstores any more as they really dont seem to care about the welfare of their animals and obviously dont check their health before selling them. I would advise people to check the teeth of a hamster before buying it, although if I had have checked and seen candys teeth I probaby would have taken her anyway just so that she wooldnt end up suffering. I was horrified when I first saw her teeth!

[souffle]

Poor little Candy. Most pet shops have no idea how to care for, sex or what is normal in an animal. They are frightened to even handle the animals in case they are bitten and staff are ofen inexperienced. Glad to hear she has a forever home with you and hope she managed ok with her teeth.

[ashleanne]

She cant really manage solid foods but she does ok with soft foods and she has to get her teeth clipped regularly but she deals with that really well too. Her teeth dont meet and the top ones grow at an angle to the right, the bottom tooth grows really fast because it doesnt get worn down so if they don't get clipped regularly its very uncomfortable for her