Can someone help me please???

[jayne]

Ok, i really need to see whether i'm just being paranoid or i really need help

I was sitting last night with my cage sitting right next to me. Sweet and Sour were still both in their beds but awake as it was due their time to come out. Next Sweet came out first, as always, ran on the wheel for about 5 seconds then ran back into bed. As soon as she went back in, i heard this really loud squeel/squeak and there was all this comotion and scurrying. I couldnt really see properly as they sleep under the green platform thats attached to the cage. My heart jumped right up to my throat, i was so scared Next, one of them came out and went into one of the other houses. Then a few minutes later the other followed, was only in a few seconds and the same thing happened.

I'm wandering if this is a sign of them not getting along anymore I noticed when i looked in the cage in the morning, one had slept under the bridge and the other slept where they normally do. Again, this morning when i looked, one had slept in the blue house and one was under the platform. About 2hours ago, the one in the blue house just moved back into the 'main' bed and everything seemed to be fine....but one of them made the same noise just now again and i'm really worried.

Can someone please give me some advice and let me know if there is anything i should do? Has anyone else encountered this behaviour and is it them telling me they dont like each other now? Is this the time i should be considering splitting them up?

Thanks

[souffle]

Jayne it does sound as if you hammies are squabling a bit though as I have never had Chinese I really cant give much advice here. My book does say that one Chinese will always be dominant but if they are the same age the subservient one should be able to withstand this.

[jayne]

Thanks Souffle

Sweet is the dominant one by far!! Although as they were under cover i couldnt get to see clearly who it was, it may well have been both making the noise though as it was really loud!! :shock: They have made little noises before, but nothing like this.

I know females are more difficult to keep together but i will keep a close eye on them and watch out for blood etc.

Is there any other members out there that have kept chinese?

[babyboos]

Hi Jayne,
this kind of behaviour is exhibited by all dwarf species kept in groups from time to time - as you say it is nothing to be unduly worried about unless you see sustained attacking and any evidence of biting or fighting.

[jayne]

UPDATE FROM TONIGHT

PLEASE SOMEONE, MY HAMMIES ARE PROPERLY FIGHTING :shock:


Ok, now i know i've just posted some lovely pictures of Sweet and Sour recently saying how they are getting along fine and they seem really happy........well, i'm afraid i spoke to soon :?

This morning when i got up to leave for work, around 7.30, they were both up and running on their wheel. A few minutes later they had both went into their house one after the other and a few seconds later one came running out with the other following and chasing around the cage.

Obviously i had to get to work but when i came home everything seemed ok... About half an hour ago, i noticed one had came out from their house and once again, the other started chasing after the other one, although this time there was really, really loud squeaking and scuttering from them running around so fast :o When i went over to the cage, one was sitting alone and the next minute, the other had went up to her and starting biting her fur and they ran about all over again. So i've had them both out to check over them, no signs of wounds or blood so thought that was ok, although i noticed a bit of fur sticking out from one and it had stuck to sand bath :? .. Put them both back in and next one had the other pratically pinned down and biting her bum!!! This time she was nearly 'screaming' the place down, like loudest i've ever heard them squeak!!! I think the time has come to separate them before it gets any worse and i find either one or both of them badly injured. I cant separate them tonight as its too late, all the shops are closed.

Can anyone please give me suggestions as to what to do or will i need to wait till tomorrow till i can get another cage?

Please, i'm soooo scared for them and i really dont think they will last the night together.

Thanks in advance :wink:

[blue02celi]

I only have 1 hammie, but sounds like they do need to be separated. Im sure theres something in your home that you could use until morning to get another cage. I know i have a few rubbermaid type bins in my home with clothes and stuff that I could empty, or any other storage type thing around the house... a big pot, bowl, bucket... Im just trying to think of anything that you could use in case you have to separate them and have no other options, im sure if they are REALLY going at it they need to be separated even if they have to be kept in something that you wouldnt normally keep them, just for the night until you can get to a store. I hope things work out tonight, keep us posted.

[jayne]

Thanks Luis

I know, i have been looking around the house for something but i dont have anything suitable :? I think i will just need to keep my fingers crossed and wait till tomorrow till i can get to the shops. I finish work at 4.30 tomorrow so will need to go straight from there. I just hope they will be ok through the night :(

[souffle]

Sorry it did not work out Jayne and it looks like Sweet & Sour have fallen out and need separated. Even a large ice cream tub with a bowl of water, food and bedding is suitable as an emergency home. Punch some holes in the lid and tape it down for overnight. Get yourself one of those plastic tubs from the pound shop and keep it as a travel box/ emergancy home. Even a plastic storage bin is fine. You could even make an economical home from one as a permanant home. £3.99 from wilkinsons or other similar stores, who also stock some not bad, well priced cages though they are all barred. You should be able to get one similar to the one you have for about £20.
What a worry but you have tried to keep them together and as I said, as female Chinese mature they often start fighting and need homes alone. Maybe you could rig up a 'divider; in the cage you have for now? Couple of bricks or mesh to keep them apart?
Keep us posted and hope they are OK

[babyboos]

Oh Jayne what dreadful news - have you recently cleaned them out?
I do hope they are okay overnight-and no further injury has been sustained. Really in this situation a large cook pot will suffice as storage, the lid will not be completely air tight and usually heavy enough not to be lifted off. Better a cramped bored hamster, than a wounded hamster - and pots will clean :wink: :?
Rubbing them together to ensure their scents are intermingled can help to restore some calm - if one is using the sandbath more than the other it can cause their smells to change. Pick them up at same time and rub them against each other's scent glands as often as you can.
I do hope they have calmed down and peace is restored. If not please do not blame yourself, there is absolutely nothing you could have done differently.
A new enclosure will hopefully not be too expensive - I don't know what stores you have close by, but if need be opt for a cheap storage tub as a temporary measure until you can get something suitable for long term living.
Good Luck

[SnuggleHam]

Sorry to hear your hams aren’t getting along well :( I can relate to the problem in some ways. I had male gerbils clanned together that I had to separate because of fighting. I hadn’t noticed until both looked pretty chewed up and raw, fortunately both made a full recovery. The saddest part to me was that they had to live alone, knowing they are naturally social animals. But there inst much else you can do. I suppose its the animals way of saying they prefer solitude *shrugs* I’m sure the hams will be quite happy if you provide them with lots of interesting things to do. :D

[jayne]

Thanks everyone! I did think that one day i would need to split them up but just thought i could keep them together a bit longer if oyu know what i mean :wink: They have been with each since July so its not been to bad i suppose, they've managed to be happy for quite a while.

Babyboos - no, i hadnt cleaned the cage, infact i was due to tonight but instead i'll now be making a brand new home for one of them.

I'm not long back from the shops, ended up buying another Savic Rody but without the tubes as that one was too expensive and i dont even use the tubes :? I also bought another silent spinner and got them matching to the cages, so Sweet will have the current red one with the red silent spinner and i will buy a red house. Sour will have the new blue cage with the purple spinner and will put the current blue house in there for her :D

I am kind of hoping that it will be a good thing for Sour as she is the less dominant one she is still VERY timid and hides all the time. Maybe she will come out of her shell :wink:

I am assuming its best to add some of the current substrate into the new cage so it has both of their scent on it and to settle Sour ok in her new home? Any other tips and advice would be greatly appreicated :D

[babyboos]

How have they been since the battle?
I wonder if a complete change of tank may help heal the rift?
Try setting up the new cage and placing them both in it - less dominant hamster first, and see if they have a tussle - be ready to get in there first sign of conflict and get the blue cage ready for one to go back into if need be whilst observing them in the new red cage.

[souffle]

I think adding some of the old bedding etc to the new cage is a good idea. We always send baby hamsters to their new home with some of the old cage litter and it seems to help them settle. Personally, for your peace of mind I would do the separation now and let that be you decision. I don't think they mind being alone so much really and as you say it may help Sour become less timid. I am sure she will be thrilled with the new home and with lots of love and attention she will soon come round I expect.

[jayne]

Ok. So i set up the new cage, added a good bit of the substrate from the old cage into it and added in most of the toys and 2 hideouts into the new one too. I figured as this was brand new and would have no smell whatsoever, it would benefit from having most of the stuff with both of their scents on it :) I put both cages side by side and joined them by their wooden bridge and just left them to see who would go in first, Sour wandered on in herself and the blue one is now her new home :P I got my partner to hold Sweet and i rubbed them together as suggested. It was so sad to see them separate but i know its for the best.

Its not even been a day but i will keep an eye on them and see how they are settling in :wink:

Thanks for your concern and help

[souffle]

Sounds like Sour was made for that new home. Hope she is happy there and I am sure you will find them both more settled now they have their own penthouse suites :lol:

[jayne]

Hehe! I would like one of those penthouse suites also :lol: I will get round to posting some pics of their new homes, all colour coded and all that jazz :P

Well, only Sweet has come out so far, infact as i type she is attacking a fruit stick and pratically swinging from it :lol: Sour hasnt been out but i have checked on her and shes just curled up in her house. I think maybe as much as she was the less dominant one shes still used to having company and shes feeling a bit lonely but i'm sure she will get used to it in time. I'm just worried that she gets stressed out by it all and dont want her to get sick. I'm assuming the best thing to do is just give her loads of attention :?

I also suggested to my partner that we take it in turns to handle them, so one night i will have Sweet and he will have Sour, then the next night vice versa? I have logic behind my madness in the sense that i dont want to confuse them, especially Sour, by them both smelling each other and both myself and partner all in one night :? Does that make sense or am i being silly?

[jayne]

Update on Sweet and Sour

Just to let you know that all seems to be ok. Sweet is just her usual self, she's been out even more than before and happily runs on her wheel now she has no one to share it with. On the other hand, Sour has hardly been out and has been going mental with the bedding. The first night alone she had taken the roof off her little blue house and the bedding was all gathered up in one part of the cage and in her wheel :? Last night she had even more fun by gathering more of the bedding up and even more in her wheel. I have moved it out from her wheel as i want her to exercise and still be able to use it. She also doesnt seem to be drinking a lot of water going by the level left in her bottle in the morning. She is still extremely shy but i'm hoping to work on her and just give her lots of attention so she can overcome this.

So overall, Sweet should be fully tamed in no time but Sour could take a bit longer. I will keep you all updated on any progress or problems :?

[souffle]

Each hamster has its own unique character and temperament so just because they are litter mates and have always been together does not mean they will behave the same. I think you are now seeing the 'true' sweet and sour coming through. Even in our litter, all raised the same and given the same treatment, Red is a very laid back, placid little lady who does like to sleep in and does not wheel run a lot where as her sister Sonni is prone to 'furry fits' and runs a lot, is a very organised busy hamster and her brother Paws is kind of inbetweeny with a lovely boyish temperament. He is untidy, curious, pees anywhere, leaves his food everywhere but is fairly calm and enjoys everything in a sweet, innocent way! :lol: :lol: It will be interesting to see how sweet & sour develop now. They sound just fine and sour is get getting everything organised to her liking. :lol:

[SnuggleHam]

If I may ask... what is a "furry fit"? and what does it look like? lol :? :lol:

[souffle]

A 'furry fit' occurs when you walk into the room, put on the light say good evening hamsters and Sonni emerges from her nest igloo at the speed of light, races up three levels, climbs upside down round the bars of the top level, shoots back down again them retreats rapidly into the igloo. After the 'furry fit' she strolls out slowly and sits by the door waiting to come out :roll:
Hamsters :lol: :lol: You got to love them :lol:

[SnuggleHam]

Haha!!!! :lol: Ive never seem mine do that! Gwen usually emerges nice and slow from the start if I wake her up. If she’s already up and about and I turn the light on she freezes stiff, like waiting for a predator to eat her lol

[pophammy]

Not all hams do it, they normally only do it when they have just been woken up and get a bit of a shock! Or it could be only Sonni that does it! :roll:

[jayne]

LOL, i can easily imagine a hamster doing that. Although, i cant say i've ever seen mine do that when i've just came into the room or put a light on. Occassionally, i have seen them out and about and all of a sudden one would 'bolt' in to their house and back out again :lol: They would do this even though no sudden movements or noise had been made :?

Thanks for explaining the mounds of bedding that Sour seems to be making, she is crazy :P Shes still doing it but its just put my mind to rest that shes not doing it as shes depressed or something. I was just concerened that as she didnt have company she was losing her mind :shock:

[Thames Valley Rodents]

one of my torts (Mogs daughter, a dove tort) has furry-fits... shes a bit manic really!
I'm sorry to hear about sweet and sour. Iv bred chinese on and off for eleven years and have never in that time managed to keep two females together for more than seven months (that was the record.. they normally started to scrap at about five months tops). Its such a shame. When i first started keeping them every one was adament that they MUSt be in pairs. I just so rarely seems to work. Males how ever very rarely fight badly in pairs... much like winter whites.
I hope that they are both feeling better for the seperation and i hope your nerves are still intact!!

Kat

[jayne]

Just wanted to say thanks to everyone for their help and kind words on my troubles with this :)

Very much appreciated and i'm a lot more calmer now :P