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Old 06-10-2008, 03:31 PM   #21
workmad3
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Default Re: Community improvements? Membership? A discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matty Day
Just three things
1
I agree with work mad 3
i agree if science had its way our lives would be very boring and factual science
I disagree with this idea (although thank you for agreeing with my original post ). If science ruled our lives more, it would merely mean that our thoughts and reasoning would be based in reality (I'm assuming by science that you mean the physical sciences, rather than social sciences btw). However, as any student of the sciences would tell you, that doesn't mean that they would be boring and would likely make things even more crazed than they are now. You can't even argue that things like art would disappear, but I admit it would more likely be more abstract (such as with things like fractal patterns). Any mathematician or physicist will tell you that the truly great theorems are possessed of a certain beauty and elegance that seems to stem from them being 'right' (to a certain degree of rightness).

There isn't even a problem with conformity in science... there are as many conflicting theories around in physics as there are conflicting viewpoints in philosophy. This idea that science is boring and conformist is pretty much plain wrong and is probably rooted in the way that science is taught in schools currently, namely that of 'these are facts, these are the only things that should interest you, blah, blah, blah' with none of the elegance coming through, and certainly never covering the intuitive way the ideas are come to that is as great a leap of creativity as experienced by any other artist. The only difference is that there is a clear-cut way to say if the idea is correct in science, and that is to test it

Anyway, apologies for the digression.
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Old 06-10-2008, 04:18 PM   #22
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Default Re: Community improvements? Membership? A discussion

I have to say I find HC to be one of the most sensible places amongst the various Hamster forums, some are just a non stop flaming war, which frankly wears me out and I tend to leave. I don't think we have a major problem with people getting out of hand here from what I have seen, of course there is the odd incident but that's human nature - we will never all agree on a given subject. I think what I'm trying to say - badly as always - is that it could be a LOT worse than what it is, this is a nice place with helpful and supportive members, I can think of a least a couple of other forums that can't say that, kudos to the admin and mod team for providing such a lovely place for us to share our stories and experiences, long may it continue.
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Old 06-10-2008, 04:28 PM   #23
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Default Re: Community improvements? Membership? A discussion

Well *laughs* Woah.. what a surprise topic! I just got finished reading the first page, then I realized there was a second page! But I think for now I have a pretty good idea of what everyone is getting at. Now, where oh where to being!

I suppose I will start by saying that I am flattered many people think highly enough of hamster central to want to discuss their feelings about the forum and community and have a desire to see it prosper and remain both friendly and helpful. At the same time I'm feeling a bit disappointed this topic had to come up. Because it tells me that many people are feeling some strain and not enjoying their time here as much as they use to or would like to. So I have some mixed emotions, and even a bit overwhelmed!

As many of you know I have always tried to get the users input on what they would like to see on Hamster Central (working on those new forum templates for people to choose from btw I have noticed that things have started to feel as though they are changing direction in atmosphere as the forum gets new registered users. Truthfully, I think that in reality, there have been only a few "problem users" that myself and the moderators have gotten complaints about. But the complaints are about general topics and haven't really been enough to warn over yet, or consider a ban. I prefer to work with people as much I can before I resort to banning people. I'm proud to say that we haven't banned many people. In fact I can only think of one I had to ban. Not bad for a forum that has over 550 users. But in light of that, the re-occurring complaints are generally similar with a few of these members and wide spread over the forums topics. Now and then they fire up and add to the "weight" of it all and perhaps give an impression the forum atmosphere is worse off then it is.

It may be that I am perhaps a bit to lenient With the forum growing so much it may be time to crack down. Three strikes and your out sounds like a good idea. But for it to work my moderators and I need to come up with very clear guidelines to follow so that each situation is treated as fairly as it can based on the criteria for a warning or perhaps a ban.

I think some of the main problems that are causing this "tension" is that people are being WAY to opinionated in the sense that they do not leave room to take other peoples opinions into account or else don't respect them (even if they say they do) It seems to me if one can express they respect another's persons opinion, then the discussion ends there, you agree to disagree. I don't see this as JUST being a problem with young people. Many young people here are quite knowledgeable. And yes I'm sure far more knowledgeable them me! Young people have a way of absorbing information like a sponge, especially when its something they are interested in. I recognize their inexperience could lead to some of these "heated discussions"

But on the other hand I feel that experienced people can be set in their ways and feel that they somehow pull rank or seniority, that somehow what they say has to go. When one knows they are an expert in an area, its not hard to get up on a high horse to to speak. Then when you get two people who are convinced they are both experts you get trouble Adults can be very childish, just like many children who act more like adults. (and I know a few personally)

This mainly seems to be a matter of people..
1) Forcing their opinions on others
2) Leaving no room for other peoples opinions
3) A need to always be right and "ontop" of the discussion.
4) Unable to phrase things in a way that are constructive and in a way that approached a topic that wont offend others.
5) Unable to recognize when its time to respectfully agree to disagree.

I bet I could add more to that list if I really thought about it. :P I think that sums it up enough though.


On the matter of making a "buddy system" or personal invitation only. I don't think I could do that. What about the people who want to join hamster central and have never been on a hamster forum prior, and don't know anyone from the forum? How am I to determine if they are going to be trouble makers or not? I certainly dont' want myself or my moderators hassled with the job of doing "background" checks on everyone who wants to join.

This forum was made for everyone! I hate cliques, and this isn't a high school atmosphere, and I don't intend to make it that way. Everyone is welcome to join this club I also like to be a bit more positive and offer new people the benefit of the doubt that they will be nothing more then a great addition to the community. Unfortunately in such large based net communities like this one, you are going to experience a few bad hamster turds. Thats just how it is and its impossible to stop it. But as you have seen, the bad apples surface quickly. Let them be the ones to show us their little worth, and from there we will try and handle it as best we can (perhaps with the three strikes rule)

About making the forum a democracy, no way I see peoples points but there is no way I'm letting that happen. I have seen what happens when you get too many hands in the cookie jar, and trust me its not pretty. I think I have done well enough making decisions for this forum. If I didn't it wouldn't be here now and going strong. I am of course open to suggestions on ways to improve the site. As it was pointed out, this is my forum, its my baby. Think of me as the boss. If you don't have a boss at work running the show and keeping things in order and tell your employees to work together and run it. Someone is always gonna slow it down, ruin the show and cause drama, try and take over. (My dear mods, I of course don't mean to call you my employees! you are my beloved helpers and I don't think this forum would be here without you! *hugs*)

Ideally if everyone were just more friendly and respectful and careful to not come off as pompous you know whats! Things would be nicer! Of course we cant expect everyone to break bad habits. With such case to case based complains it can sometime be difficult to decide when the cut off point should be fore that particular user.

The best way to deal with any "problem" users if for people to submit a PM to one of the mods with a brief summary of the problem, a link to the thread, or copy of a PM (of it was over an PM) Especially if its a reoccurring problems which shows a bad tend on the forum. Provide as many links needed for examples and information as necessary that is valid and comes with proof. Then we mods have something to work with and a record!

If you have a problem with someone, take it to PM rather then making it full blown in public. Save your PM's encase it ends up something that needs to be reported in the event you couldn't solve it like responsible adults.
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Old 06-10-2008, 04:39 PM   #24
Basia
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Default Re: Community improvements? Membership? A discussion

I remember when I was a fairly new member Souffle said that she would prefer to say nothing at all if she can't say something nice and I thought that was very admirable. I have tried very hard to follow Souffle's example but I haven't always succeeded.
The forum has grown rapidly recently and although I may have preferred the forum when it was smaller, I wouldn't want to see it made more difficult for people to join. I think the monitors do a great job but there aren't very many of them too active these days so it must be hard work for them.
The reason I always liked HC so much more than other forums was because I felt it was ok to discuss things here, people might not agree with me but things were always discussed in a friendly way. Recently there has been what I consider to be some childish behaviour, which has nothing to do with the age of people but more to do with their lack of respect for differing opinions. I don't feel so comfortable expressing my opinions any more and most of my posts now are admiring photos, etc.
I think it is a shame, I really don't know what the answer is, maybe if everyone had a little patience with other people, read their posts through and really thought about how it is going to sound to the people reading it before they press the submit button it would get back to where it was. I hope so.
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Old 06-10-2008, 04:50 PM   #25
SnuggleHam
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Default Re: Community improvements? Membership? A discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Basia
The reason I always liked HC so much more than other forums was because I felt it was ok to discuss things here, people might not agree with me but things were always discussed in a friendly way. Recently there has been what I consider to be some childish behaviour, which has nothing to do with the age of people but more to do with their lack of respect for differing opinions. I don't feel so comfortable expressing my opinions any more and most of my posts now are admiring photos, etc.
I see what your saying and how you might feel that way, and I am very sad to hear it and I hope that I can find out a way to remedy the problem with the help of my mods and my hubby Smoo. And I agree, its lack of respect, lack of openness and a friendly approach. I need to maybe give everyone a good kick in the behind and try and press the fact that this forum, SHOULD BE TREATED LIKE A HUGE FAMILY! before anyone posts anything, I would encourage every to stop and think, "is the post Im about to submit friendly? is it possible my tone will scare people into thinking they will be poorly judged, stop them from wanting to ask questions in the future? How can I word this to be friendly and constructive?"
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Old 06-10-2008, 04:51 PM   #26
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Default Re: Community improvements? Membership? A discussion

when i first joined and hamster forum was still running, i would post things on here that i wouldn't on there with all the scary experts who might laugh at me
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Old 06-10-2008, 04:55 PM   #27
SnuggleHam
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Default Re: Community improvements? Membership? A discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunsey
when i first joined and hamster forum was still running, i would post things on here that i wouldn't on there with all the scary experts who might laugh at me
Then perhaps it would be a good idea for you and anyone who feels similar to send me a PM with the name or names of people who make you feel as though you can no longer post without fear of being judged badly? and also explain why it is you feel that way. I'm sure common names will surface, and it would allows me to take the first step and making the forum a place people feel comfortable again. I stress you send in PM, no finger pointing in public please!
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Old 06-10-2008, 04:58 PM   #28
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Default Re: Community improvements? Membership? A discussion

oh, i think you mis-understood. maybe i explained badly. I meant that when hamster forum was running, i felt a bit nervous of posting on that forum with "silly" questions because there was so many experts on there. I came on here instead because there were other hamster beginners and i felt more comfortable
There's no-one who made me feel that way about the other forum, only myself!
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Old 06-10-2008, 05:07 PM   #29
SnuggleHam
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Default Re: Community improvements? Membership? A discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunsey
oh, i think you mis-understood. maybe i explained badly. I meant that when hamster forum was running, i felt a bit nervous of posting on that forum with "silly" questions because there was so many experts on there. I came on here instead because there were other hamster beginners and i felt more comfortable
There's no-one who made me feel that way about the other forum, only myself!
Oh, well in that case thats good! Glad HC inst that bad

But encase anyone does feel that way, please send an IM my way!
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Old 06-11-2008, 02:38 AM   #30
ad36
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Default Re: Community improvements? Membership? A discussion

As a novice hamster owner but one who watches this forum daily, I would just like to make my comment on this subject.

Having done my initial search on-line many months ago and watched many forums for sometime, HAMSTER CENTRAL is the only forum that I now sumbit too.

I found it to be the most welcoming.
I knew most members spoke from excellent experience and a wealth of knowledge, rather than opinion.
I have asked some basic questions in the past but have never felt 'mocked' in doing so.
I have learnt a huge amount about all aspects of hamster care and ownership.
I have had fun reading posts, watching the development of litters etc and hearing about other members hamsters.


I have been surprised over the growth of this forum over the past few months and the many new members that are joining.

NOW I would like to congratulate SNUGGLEHAM in her post made under this topic 10/06 11:28pm, in my opinion this was a sensible and suitable approach to a problem that members have highlighted.
We need to trust our Administrator and Moderators to deal with troublesome posts. By following the guidelines for any postings we make,is a simple enough idea and those that cant, can be dealt with appropriately. To be frank if you dont like the rules and set-up on this site, there are plenty others out there that may suit you better or maybe start one following rules that you may find more preferable

From a totally selfish point of view,I have to say that I am concerned that if this is not allowed to happen, the forum will lose 'sensible' participants and who will I turn too then for advice

This forum has run successfully and strongly up until now, so come on HAMSTER CENTRAL USERS pull together, show respect and keep this forum as it should be, Hamster Owners , novice or experienced, sharing the fun of keeping HAMSTERS
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